urbanSTL

I'm glad to see this one moving ahead and I am glad that they are focusing on apartments first. If for some reason the office portion doesn't work out, they can change those parcels to become apartments. For some who are iffy on design, I can say that there will be no stucco on these buildings. That material was struck down by the MRC. So at least there will be higher quality finishes.

I am looking forward to seeing updated renderings when they become available.

I noticed something else from the plans that Chris posted on his site, that is sure to get everyone additionally fired up 

More surface parking! That said, might as well get rid of that Chouteau curb cut and make the lot accessible only from "Papin". In all honesty though, it just looks like the small lot originally shown by the hotel has shifted east to now be located by the office building. I also understand that this is all pretty preliminary. Parking space/lot configurations are sure to change as hotel/office tenants are secured, and the various phases of development actually move forward.

Also, I'm not a traffic flow expert, but I'm guessing that the proposed signalized interchange at Papin is probably a good thing?

NorthHamptonMatt wrote: ↑

Feb 06, 2020

John Coctostan wrote: ↑

Feb 05, 2020

He's got a long-term plan for that area which includes more ground up development including residential, commercial, and possibly a hotel.

And you know this how? There's been no progress on the Mill Creek Flats project for weeks now. The only thing that has changed in Hamburg's Steelcote District is the demolition of two old homes and a junkyard as well as the installation of some glass at the old Columbia Oil building. I wouldn't be too confident that he will build anything else in his area if he can't even show definite progress on Mill Creek Flats. I think he may have bitten off more than he can chew.

I know because I'm involved but thanks for your opinion.

^NHMatt is a new member who's jumped in with both feet. Unfortunately, he's landed on quite a few toes already. It'll take him a while to realize we're not all idiots around here. 

John Coctostan wrote: ↑

Feb 05, 2020

He's got a long-term plan for that area which includes more ground up development including residential, commercial, and possibly a hotel.

All of us have long-term plans. Just saying.

JacksonPolyp wrote: ↑

Feb 06, 2020

John Coctostan wrote: ↑

Feb 05, 2020

He's got a long-term plan for that area which includes more ground up development including residential, commercial, and possibly a hotel.

All of us have long-term plans. Just saying.

How philosophical...

WTH is "open space." Grass? How lame

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Feb 06, 2020

WTH is "open space." Grass? How lame

lol, when that little segmented strip mall is all built out I bet you will wish it was grass.  Asphalt always expands with each progressive rendering on projects like this.  I guess it must be the heat from all of their development efforts.

framer wrote: ↑

Feb 06, 2020

^NHMatt is a new member who's jumped in with both feet. Unfortunately, he's landed on quite a few toes already. It'll take him a while to realize we're not all idiots around here. 

Trolls can be such clumsy creatures. 

I will note that the stoplight at Grand and "Papin" will be a good thing to have. If Papin is extended to Grand within the Steelcote area, it creates another entrance and connection to link the two development areas together. It could actually be something good. Walking across Grand isn't fun in this area but I'm sure there's a push to have some measures put in place to make it a bit easier to cross. Having walked across Grand in this area, my heart has stopped a few times when I see people rocketing down the Grand viaduct and almost seem they'll plow through the light and me. Do a similar crosswalk to what SLU did at West Pine Mall and Grand.

chriss752 wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2020

I will note that the stoplight at Grand and "Papin" will be a good thing to have. If Papin is extended to Grand within the Steelcote area, it creates another entrance and connection to link the two development areas together. It could actually be something good. Walking across Grand isn't fun in this area but I'm sure there's a push to have some measures put in place to make it a bit easier to cross. Having walked across Grand in this area, my heart has stopped a few times when I see people rocketing down the Grand viaduct and almost seem they'll plow through the light and me. Do a similar crosswalk to what SLU did at West Pine Mall and Grand.

There already exists a perfect opportunity for a pedestrian connection between Iron Hill and Steelcote under Grand, instead of having to cross it, but Cullinan has completely blocked it off with their garage and guaranteed that it will be very inhospitable to pedestrians for any future development.

Why are they waiting till Fall to break ground on this? Isn't everything ready to go? I assume it probably has to do with the redesign, due to the rejection of stucco, and financing. Let's hope it actually starts when they say it will.

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STL_4_LIFE wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2020

Why are they waiting till Fall to break ground on this? Isn't everything ready to go? I assume it probably has to do with the redesign, due to the rejection of stucco, and financing. Let's hope it actually starts when they say it will.

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Has nothing to do with the redesign. Construction crews working on SLU Hospital still park on-site, so they'll wait until that's done. Also, they still have to buy the land from SLU. While they hoped to begin in the Spring, a project of this size takes some time. Design could've effected the timeline, but I doubt it.

STL_4_LIFE wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2020

Why are they waiting till Fall to break ground on this? Isn't everything ready to go? I assume it probably has to do with the redesign, due to the rejection of stucco, and financing. Let's hope it actually starts when they say it will.

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Cullinan Properties doesn't even have their city tax assistance request (TIF, CID, TDD, abatement, etc.) approved yet, and it will be a big one.  They also need lease commitments on a good chunk of that 60-85k sf of planned Phase I retail space.  They aren't going to get financing until those are resolved to their lenders' satisfaction.  And if they aren't, then they will have to rethink their redevelopment plan.

urbanitas wrote:

STL_4_LIFE wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2020

Why are they waiting till Fall to break ground on this? Isn't everything ready to go? I assume it probably has to do with the redesign, due to the rejection of stucco, and financing. Let's hope it actually starts when they say it will.

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Cullinan Properties doesn't even have their city tax assistance request (TIF, CID, TDD, abatement, etc.) approved yet, and it will be a big one.  They also need lease commitments on a good chunk of that 60-85k sf of planned Phase I retail space.  They aren't going to get financing until those are resolved to their lenders' satisfaction.  And if they aren't, then they will have to rethink their redevelopment plan.

My bad. I thought they were further along in the process. Hopefully everything goes smooth, so they can start on time.

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The parking garage as the project is rendered reminds me a lot of when they built the parking structure next to the Brentwood Metrolink station.   Not so much how it faces the station but how it faces the Home Depot next door.  What went through my mind is if only they could have built the site in such a way that it would have encourage a second access/secondary street from Home Depot into the development with the idea that one day you could redevelop the Home Depot as a bigger denser TOD development in the future with its own pedestrian friendly secondary side street parallel  to Hanley.   

I see the latest site rendering that Tim posted above and can't stop thinking about a missed opportunity to tie into Gratiot & the back neighbor in the future.  Once that garage is up it is a done deal for a long long time.   I also understand the sharp elevation fall off at the edge of property and how the garage utilizes this difference to fit in parking that is mostly below ground at a much more cost effective build from the perspective of Chouteau avenue.  But their must be some creative architects and good engineers that can present a solution.   Heck, split the garage in two and add another squiggly street as a knock off mini version of San Fran Lombard Street.  

A lot of info in the TIF Commission Doc

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... Packet.pdf

[quote="quincunx" post_id="316661" time="1581464203"]Holy big numbers! $327.2M project. $63.7M TIF, $10.2M CID. $15.2M land acquisition (You could buy ~4 dead malls for that!). $37.2M for structured parking. #Butforparking[/quote]

Is there really demand for this development?

Subsidizing this w/ tax $ would be beyond dumb. I’d even argue that building this period is dumb.

STL=slow growth region. We can’t keep spreading limited tax $/workers/entertainment districts so thin.

We need more people/workers not more buildings/BBQ restaurants/beer halls.

Sitting and waiting isnt going to attract any growth either.


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quincunx wrote: ↑

Feb 11, 2020

A lot of info in the TIF Commission Doc

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... Packet.pdf

Why have one full, bustling, subsidized mixed-use development, when you can have two failing, half-vacant, subsidized mixed-use developments 1500' from each other!

That's the St. Louis way.