urbanSTL

^  Either of the two four-block proposals would have been be a huge improvement, provided they stiffen up those wet noodle streets.  And the pink marshmallow should not be at the corner of Grand and Chouteau.

None of these fully answer the important questions though...how will the project relate to Grand and Gratiot?  And why on Earth do they need so many driveways?

urbanitas wrote:SLBJ - Developer shares a new peek, name of SLU redevelopment

No new peek, no new name, no new info.  I'm not sure why this article is.

Maybe to inform those who don’t know the new name. I don’t really know really.

I just think the middle low rise buildings are odd, and kind of crush the dense feeling and potential of this development.

More floors, more apartments would kill here.

A hotel brand RFP was issued on June 24th. There is an updated site plan, giving more detail on the square footage of space and a birdseye view of the surrounding area. Also interesting to note that two streets in Iron Hill will be named "Steel Street" and "Prospect Avenue". Construction is to commence on Phase 1 in Q2 2020.

I want to be excited about this but I have this sinking feeling it is going to be a run of the mill suburban strip mall development. And nothing in the rendering convinces me otherwise.

chriss752:
The evolution of design. I honestly believe that the chosen design is perfect. The other designs were odd looking and some would’ve been deemed bad by a lot of you.



Still not a fan but the design that I think would change some perceptions is the first one on the above.   I think it gets rid of the massing of the linear parking structure, adds an overall grid, & inviting access to & from future greenway and ties into future city development along Gratiot.   From construction standpoint, believe it will be more difficult as the grade differs quit a bit so understand developers tendency.   However, just back to the same highland lets isolate our development from neighborhood mentality

This isn't your average run-of-the-mill suburban strip mall development that houses a Subway, dry cleaners, consignment store, and out-of-place bar.

It also isn't going to be the most dense development you've ever seen. 

I think this project will be a bigger, better version of phases 1 & 2 of the Boulevard in Brentwood.  

If the project happens, and they can bring some great new retail options to the city of St. Louis, it would be a huge win for the city and its urban dwellers.

Personally, I'm skeptical this project actually ever breaks ground, but, if it does, I'll be among the excited. 

chaifetz10 wrote: Agreed - I'm expecting it to eventually evolve into a SLU / SSM centric space.  Some SSM medical offices, some SLU res life apartments for med students, a satelite campus bookstore, Subway, some pharmacy, and then some random campus departments with offices there.  Maybe some innovation space funded by Chaifetz... but I don't see it being a major mixed use development that's going to pull in new and exciting retail.

I don't think there is anything wrong with this being a SLU specific project. In fact, that is probably the more sustainable way to develop this particular area. There is definitely a void of everyday services in this area and I think anything that fills this void will do well. This development could also be a catalyst for further development.

I think this could be one of the best spots in all of the city for an Apple Store. 

I didn't say it's the best spot - but I think it's a pretty good candidate on a short list. 

You have SLU and the medical campus nearby. Plus Harris-Stowe. The Grove, Cortex, Foundry, and the Armory are close. Downtown and Downtown West aren't far. Metrolink is adjacent to the project. There is a highway exit not far away. 

And then there is the Steelcote District going in just across the street. 

I still don't like it. So anti-urban. We got enough of that going on right now. This city fabric needs to be re-woven. More islands is a bad idea and shortsighted. 

midwest_best wrote: I want to be excited about this but I have this sinking feeling it is going to be a run of the mill suburban strip mall development. And nothing in the rendering convinces me otherwise.

Well, that is what Cullinan Properties does.  Streets of St. Chuck was actually their step outside of the box; their attempt to go "upscale" and create the faux-urban lifestyle center - almost 2 decades after it was the hot, new retail concept.

Can we also stop naming these development areas? Like, are we going to get a giant lit sign that blasts "IRON HILL"? Stop naming these as development islands and just build stuff, and stitch it to the surrounding neighborhood in an organic manner.  That would be a small step (even if in name alone) towards making this feel like less of a faux urban, exclusive lifestyle center like Streets or Boulevard.  Just reeks of a lack of authenticity and neighborhood awareness on the part of the developers.  Hard headed.  They'll get their subsidies, build their sh*t, and be out of the neighborhood, at least it's what it feels like.

imran wrote:bwcrow1s:

Can we also stop naming these development areas? Like, are we going to get a giant lit sign that blasts "IRON HILL"? Stop naming these as development islands and just build stuff, and stitch it to the surrounding neighborhood in an organic manner.  That would be a small step (even if in name alone) towards making this feel like less of a faux urban, exclusive lifestyle center like Streets or Boulevard.  Just reeks of a lack of authenticity and neighborhood awareness on the part of the developers.  Hard headed.  They'll get their subsidies, build their sh*t, and be out of the neighborhood, at least it's what it feels like.

Have you looked at the preliminary site and earthwork plans on that RFP?  Holy retaining walls!  Cullinan apparently wants to take the "Hill" part of that Iron Hill brand literally.

No picture to share, but a soil test drill has appeared on site. 

imran wrote: It is often difficult to explain to enthusiastic members of this forum that nuance and details can make the difference between long-term success or failure of a development. It appears that unless you fully embrace dev proposals in the City (glaring shortfalls included) you are characterized as an ungrateful hater, out of touch with reality.

If there was an existing form-based code for this site, some of the mistakes being proposed in this development could easily have been averted.

I'm really surprised that this development is shaping up to be so disappointing. When SLU hired away the development director from Park Central, which has been instrumental in the revival of the Grove, I figured the intention was to do something like form-based code and create an urban TOD with walkable connections. The fact that this is not really happening makes me think the individual SLU hired does not have any experience negotiating with developers on projects of this scale, or he wasn't given enough of a mandate from SLU leadership to do so.

Pretty hard to make a walkable neighborhood when Grand and Chouteau are speedways, there is a large train yeard splitting the neighborhood and an interstate highway. But I will say this, this development is walkable. Parking will always be needed in developments here until the transit network rapidly grows. As time goes on and the Chouteau Greenway is built, Steelcote Square is built out, Armory is built out (although you all won't like the new design) and Foundry are built out, you'll have a decently walkable neighborhood. But it is hard to create. 

I assure you all, Brooks knows what he is doing. 

You can't just have a "wait and hope for the best and it will all work out" approach to development in this city, which lacks a comprehensive development plan and has a long history of very ill-fated development decisions. It is kind of a chicken-and-egg question as to whether the public infrastructure needs to be in place in order to attract good development, or if, in the rust belt where cities are strapped for cash, development needs to be secured in order to motivate public works projects. But I do know this: If Park Central had not implemented form-based code or worked with WashU School of Medicine to control how projects came together and on which parcels, the Grove would look more like that terrible Aventura complex than what it actually looks like now. And when you get large swathes of development that looks like that, the area no longer looks or feels like a city so no amount of public infrastructure can remedy the situation. I hope you're right about Brooks and SLU, but something tells me SLU and its trustees want the development so badly that Brooks is having to agree to things that go against his best instincts.

I really don't get all the griping about this project. It's a large, dense, mixed-use project in the heart of the City. Isn't this what we all want? 

The thing is, there's nothing walkable about this area right now. There's no street grid. No retail. No residential. There's nothing but a large medical center. This development will be the first to actually add anything new to the mix and give people a reason to get out of their cars and walk around.