urbanSTL

STLEngineered,
Can you really say Lindell/Whole Foods is served by Metrolink? Sure some can walk it, but it isn't convenient. That's part of the reason why the Saint Louis Streetcar is needed.... to really get true access to the heart of the CWE, Grand Center/SLU and Midtown.

Also, Maplewood authorities should be in prison for not having a sidewalk along Manchester and even the Brentwood Dierberg's is a pain in the a for Metrolink access. Saint Louis just makes it so darn hard to even use what we have effectively.

STLEnginerd wrote:^ Depends on how you want to live but i'm curious what ammenity do you need to satisfy your transit accesibility. St. Louis is not Chicago by any stretch BUT...

...Obviously its not perfect and you options are limited (especially in employment) but I'm trying to think if there is something that makes a transit lifestyle unattainable. Also note none of this requires getting on a bus which opens up a lot more possibilities, especially with the 70 Grand.

Also I'd wager as a Chicagoan you spend more time in a cab than you do on the "El" (assumption is based on the behavior of my friends who live there) and as such expanded transit is not really going to satisfy the root of your issues with St. Louis. In some ways improved Cab service is as important as LRT expansion.

Actually, I hardly ever take a taxi. Maybe 2-3 times a month? And that's usually only if it's work-related and I can use my company card. I do think it helps that I've steadfastly refused to start using Uber. I like waving down taxis...

Every weekday, I get up, get ready and check my RedEye Transit app for three options -- a direct route bus that takes about 25-minutes to drop me off two blocks from work, one that takes 20 minutes but drops me off eight blocks away, or one that transfers to the Red Line (and then from there, onto the Brown Line) which puts me six blocks away in about fifteen minutes, assuming timely transfers (which is fairly safe to assume). Another bus near my apartment deposits me directly outside my favorite bar. Express service down LakeShore puts me right smack dab in downtown, while the nearby Red Line allows me get close enough to anything else for an easy transfer or walk.

Had to get out to Garfield Park for a meeting last week, for example -- walked to the Brown in Old Town, transferred to the Green in the Loop and bam! hit my destination with ease. After the meeting, I had to get home, grab my luggage and head to Union Station, so went Green, transferred to Brown, transferred to Red, picked up my dry cleaning, took the 151 to my apartment, 152 to Red, transferred to Brown, walked six blocks to the station.

So the amenity isn't the destination (shopping, eating, outdoor activity, etc.), but the ease and consistency by which I can get to where I need/want to go and the freedom of knowing I can do so without relying on a personal vehicle. In STL, I still take the train/bus whenever possible, but the system doesn't get you everywhere it should and almost never in a timely manner -- unless you hit that rare transfer sweet spot!

Edit: I would add that the GF and I picked are most recent apartment partially because of the accessibility of transit to/from both our jobs. I would say that this is the top (or second) most desired aspect when folks are looking at apartments -- the proximity of public transit. It could be in STL too, but not with the current system -- a Southside Metrolink would change that, for me anyway.

STLEnginerd, do you use transit for grocery shopping? I used to, but made a New Year's resolution years ago to stop doing it because it was just too miserable and would ruin my day.

Only because of a court order to do so


Speaking of topic at hand, wednesday is the 2nd and final east west gateway workshop where the projects will be presented after being scored and put in high, medium and low categories If I had to wager, n/s will barely keep it's head about the medium priority line

Knowitall wrote:Only because of a court order to do so


Speaking of topic at hand, wednesday is the 2nd and final east west gateway workshop where the projects will be presented after being scored and put in high, medium and low categories If I had to wager, n/s will barely keep it's head about the medium priority line

I'm guessing the heavy price tag is pushing that line down the list? I really don't see how those silly BRT proposals are priority though. Really what are the regions transit priorities if not light rail expansion? Any idea of what projects we could look forward too? How much will go towards transit? bike/ped? greenways? ports/freights/aviation etc.? Is this thing gonna be 90% highways or what?

$ and metro just isn't ready to pull the trigger.

I think the trestle projects will be high up on the bike ped, I can see metro bus/train replacement, Ada improvements, brt, operations funds, cortex station is back in play now...I mean none of those are "sexy" type of projects but it does free up metro money to do other things if they ever get the will to do it. As far the break down, I would say 70% highways (tho some of the highway projects will have multimodal components) and rest the combo of other modes. I think getting $400 million of other modes is a huge win for non highway projects. Most of it will depend on st.louis county, their slice of the pie is a bit more then half of our regions (st.louis county, Franklin, Jefferson, st.charles and stl city)

Knowitall wrote:$ and metro just isn't ready to pull the trigger.

I think the trestle projects will be high up on the bike ped, I can see metro bus/train replacement, Ada improvements, brt, operations funds, cortex station is back in play now...I mean none of those are "sexy" type of projects but it does free up metro money to do other things if they ever get the will to do it. As far the break down, I would say 70% highways (tho some of the highway projects will have multimodal components) and rest the combo of other modes. I think getting $400 million of other modes is a huge win for non highway projects. Most of it will depend on st.louis county, their slice of the pie is a bit more then half of our regions (st.louis county, Franklin, Jefferson, st.charles and stl city)

So does local leadership and metro even realize that other cities are rapidly expanding their light rail systems? Is local leadership really that out of touch? Maintaining are roads are definitely important, but I feel like the people have spoken. We voted for Prop A because there was the expectation that Metro could make the light rail vision come true. What is really disheartening is that Metro is not even moving forward with planning and environmental planning and making this projects shovel ready so if further $ opportunities come along they are prepared. Will we even see Metrolink extension in our lifetimes? This is really pathetic, local taxpayers have given so much to this organization.

goat314 wrote:

Knowitall wrote:$ and metro just isn't ready to pull the trigger.

I think the trestle projects will be high up on the bike ped, I can see metro bus/train replacement, Ada improvements, brt, operations funds, cortex station is back in play now...I mean none of those are "sexy" type of projects but it does free up metro money to do other things if they ever get the will to do it. As far the break down, I would say 70% highways (tho some of the highway projects will have multimodal components) and rest the combo of other modes. I think getting $400 million of other modes is a huge win for non highway projects. Most of it will depend on st.louis county, their slice of the pie is a bit more then half of our regions (st.louis county, Franklin, Jefferson, st.charles and stl city)

So does local leadership and metro even realize that other cities are rapidly expanding their light rail systems? Is local leadership really that out of touch? Maintaining are roads are definitely important, but I feel like the people have spoken. We voted for Prop A because there was the expectation that Metro could make the light rail vision come true. What is really disheartening is that Metro is not even moving forward with planning and environmental planning and making this projects shovel ready so if further $ opportunities come along they are prepared. Will we even see Metrolink extension in our lifetimes? This is really pathetic, local taxpayers have given so much to this organization.

Yep, voters have done their part, and voted for tax increases to fund MetroLink expansion. Either Metro takes that ball and runs with it, or nothing will happen, simple as that.

You guys are kinda harsh on a StL City leaders. For a business or city to expand during growth years isn't difficult but to expand during non growth/stagnant/declining years is extremely difficult. There is only so much money to go around.

^ I'm really not coming down on city leaders as much as Metro. City leader shave a lot more to worry about like crime, education, services, poverty, economic development etc. Metro in my humble opinion is not effectively utilizing the money that has been allocated to them and personally they are taking their local funding situation for granted (many metros would kill to have the local support we do). Its like Metro hasn't heard of bonding. You have to find out how much these projects will cost and do it NOW! Waiting 20-30 years is not going to make our system more affordable. Just imagine if metro would have taken just $40 million of the $80 million they get from Prop A and bonded it over 20 years for capital expansion. That would give Metro $800 million in local match, potentially yielding $1.6 billion in Metrolink expansions. The key is that you have to nail those prices down now. In todays money that could get us North-South and Westport satisfying the county and city's desires. Are people in Metro not willing to think outside the box? That's how a lot of cities are seeing massive expansion now, by bonding. Except they aren't being stupid like we did with Cross County, they are actually matching with federal dollars and doubling and tripling the size of their systems.

Metro is also ineffective because they refuse to pull the trigger on something that isn't 100% "regional".

goat314 wrote:I'd be happier with metro if they said that the full transit vision would not be complete until 2040. 2 BRT by 2015, Westport by 2020, 2 more BRT by 2022, N-S by 2025, Kirkwood commuter 2030. That's what I see from other agencies, I'm not seeing that from Metro and I feel like I deserve that as a taxpayer.

Isn't this the Moving Transit Forward plan? I just read through the executive summary and it seems like metro is sticking to that plan for the most part. Here are the short range goals:

■ Short-Range (1-5 Years)
✦ Continue planning and engineering for first MetroLink extension (okay, not sure what they are doing about this one)
✦ Construct and operate first Bus Rapid Transit route (currently working on two routes)
✦ Plan, construct, and operate second Bus Rapid Transit route (see above)
✦ Begin passenger amenities and technology program (Can anyone comment on this one? I know the purchased the articulated buses for Grand)

I think the Moving Transit Forward plan is a solid, if unsexy, plan that will provide a very good system if implemented. Do others not agree?

did you read the part where it says this plans is depended on increased support from the state......

"This plan assumes State of Missouri support rising from less than one percent to 18 percent"

there is NO CHANCE EVER of that happening.

You got to hand it to them, they develop this grand plan and then within a plan write in an excuse as to why they won't do the plan, ballsy and brilliant

Its like Metro hasn't heard of bonding. You have to find out how much these projects will cost and do it NOW! Waiting 20-30 years is not going to make our system more affordable. Just imagine if metro would have taken just $40 million of the $80 million they get from Prop A and bonded it over 20 years for capital expansion. That would give Metro $800 million in local match, potentially yielding $1.6 billion in Metrolink expansions. The key is that you have to nail those prices down now. In todays money that could get us North-South and Westport satisfying the county and city's desires.

Could the City of St. Louis do something like this...say with revenues generated from an increased City cigarette tax?

the city could provide a match for a metrolink expansion, yes.
but $1.6B would not get N/S and Westport, just N/S and there is no way of knowing if New Starts Fed program will be still around going forward and its a competitive process. So it would probably have to be locally funded

the city could provide a match for a metrolink expansion, yes.
but $1.6B would not get N/S and Westport, just N/S and there is no way of knowing if New Starts Fed program will be still around going forward and its a competitive process. So it would probably have to be locally funded

Well it wouldn't make sense for the City to pay for metrolink anywhere outside the city limits, so you could take the cost of the Westport extension and any north/south past the city limits out.

What I was getting at is if the city could reasonably fund its own transit system outside of Metro. How much do you think the City is capable of bonding to build it's own transit network? It's becoming clearer to me that Metro cannot serve 100% of the City's transit needs. I'm presuming that more rail in the city would lead to more growth and taxes to pay off those bonds in the future based on the amount of growth we've seen in the central corridor.