urbanSTL

goat314 wrote:^ I don't know if I agree with the premise that we either spend $1B for metrolink or $1B for schools and public safety. I think the argument is do we spend $1B for metrolink or $1B for a new highway, seeing that transportation funds usually come out of the same pot. I also dont agree with the BRT for LRT argument. BRT is alright in certain aspects, but its been proven that people not only prefer LRT but LRT systems bring much more economic development. I look at light rail as just as much of a redevelopment tool/economic development tool as it is transportation. I also think Metro is potentially giving away LRT dollars to regions we compete with like Minneapolis and Denver. Those regions have vision and can attract and retain young people, because they are thinking about future transportation needs/desires and not stuck in our current 1970s projection models. I also think it is wrong to assume that people will just switch from bus to LRT.

We can attract young people now too, 87% increase from 2000-2010 but we can't keep them once they have kids mostly if not totally because of crime and schools

I'm just saying of the 2 choices which would have a better/bigger impact for the city of st.louis If warren Buffett told me here is a $1b you can build metro from most northern point of the city down to the southern or spend it on schools and crime prevention, I think for me to choice would be pretty easy

^ obviously a $1B toward education and overall quality of life issues in the city would benefit the region, but I still cant stand when people make arguments like its mutually exclusive. The region needs better funded social services, education, block grants, but we also need expanded light rail. We taxed ourselves for improved transit and light rail expansion, so its Metros job to deliver on that. Let the Board of Education, SLPD, and the myriad of public and non-profit organizations that blanket the region address those other issues, who do a great job with what they have.

Maybe the fractured political and governmental structure in St. Louis promotes this small time/small town thinking. I don't see other cities saying we cant expand light rail because our schools suck or we got to have BRT because we have social issues in our city. Denver, Minneapolis, Baltimore (which has worst schools and crime than St. Louis), Dallas, even Virginia Beach and Salt Lake City are expanding their light rail systems because they know its the future and its about economic development. Metro better move on this opportunity to expand Metrolink or this thing is likely DOA in the urban core.

I think the part of the problem is there is bunch of groups all doing their own thing and none has the funding to finish the job, I rather see us attack each issue one at a time with all the resources. It's obvious whatever we have been doing the last 30 years is not working.

If this gets too far off-topic, perhaps it will deserve it's own thread, but to the question of where $1B would most ideally be served... If you could invest $1B in St. Louis City schools, what would you do with it, and what exactly do you think the results would be?

The schools will improve when the general wealth of the city improves and the people who have it send their kids to public schools. As long as the parents who are able to and want to commit their own time and resources send their kids outside of the district, then the schools won't improve much. Buy computers, pay the teachers more, whatever. School performance won't drastically change until the student body isn't largely low-income with parents who don't or can't afford to invest in their child's education.

I think the part of the problem is there is bunch of groups all doing their own thing and none has the funding to finish the job, I rather see us attack each issue one at a time with all the resources. It's obvious whatever we have been doing the last 30 years is not working.

And the last 30 years has been investment in highways and roads while eradicating our original transit infrastructure. So yes, what we have been doing is not working.

And it's not fair to compare transit funding to schools and crime. Schools and crime would win every time no matter what it's compared to.

Pat I think it can be said for highways too that $1b for highways would be better served for schools/crime.

I think the point of all questions is what is metro doing now to better transportation not only for me but for all of us. It seems they really don't have a straight forward answer or solution. BRT will help but what else can we do to compete with Minneapolis and Denver which both cities i happen to like very much. I think what helps both of them is that they are the main big cities for both states Denver a state capitol and Minnie close enough to it with St.Paul aka Pigs Eye being the state capitol.. Missouri has to try to allocate moneys to both KC and St.Louis . Kansas City gets much more of the favoritism over St.Louis... Bi State needs to come up with better comprehensive plans on what they plan to do in the future of St.Louis transportation whether its BRT N/S expansion Street Car and get the public more involved

How much of n/s is in the county? 10%? I think a sticking point that will be brought up for the 1% sales tax, is well the city has 15% of all taxable sales in the stl region why should it get $1b of about $2.4b total available for all modes just for this one project. This is just the political reality of this, Dooley has an election coming up and the st.charles county executive too, they won't be giving away "their" share of the pie



Taxable sales by county

St.Louis county- 56%
St.charles- 16.5
City- 15%
Jefferson 8%
Franklin 4.5%

Jefferson, Saint Charles, and Franklin don't participate in or contribute to Metro.

I Am aware, I was talking about the possibility with funding n/a with the 1% sales tax for transportation that's working it's way to the November ballot

OK but how are the current gas tax and Metro Prop A tax currently distributed? If lion's share of those go to the county, then I think there is some bartering room.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/housin ... ents/9077/


Does New Mass Transit Always Have to Mean Rapidly Rising Rents?

SOMERVILLE, Mass.—On Saturday nights, Davis Square bustles with the young and fashionable. They're seeing an independent film at the restored movie palace or taking in a comedy show down the street. They're slurping ramen at a Japanese restaurant, sipping a beer at a sidewalk table, or people-watching on the busy central plaza. Tucked into a corner of Somerville, a city of 77,000 just northwest of Boston, Davis Square is a prototype vision of urbanism — dense, transit-oriented, walkable, and a real estate agent's dream. A typical one-bedroom apartment rents for as much as $2,000, and single-family homes now sell for upwards of $1 million.

Van Hardy lived here in the mid-1980s. When he looks back on the last three decades, he's amazed at how things have changed. "Davis Square was kind of a depressed area, a lot of crime," the 64-year-old says. The neighborhood began to transform after metro Boston's light rail and subway system — known as the "T" — extended into Somerville in 1984. The new Davis Station offered an easy commute to Harvard, MIT, or downtown Boston via the T's Red Line. "As soon as the Red Line came in, there were more college kids, young professionals," Hardy recalls. And as the neighborhood grew more desirable, Hardy's rent went up, forcing him and many of his neighbors to move across town.

How far would one have to move to find a more affordable apartment in St. Louis near a MetroLink station or streetcar stop? Gentry's Landing on 4th street Downtown is only $805/mo. for a two bedroom, two bath, including all utilities except water. Yet, it's only two blocks from two different stations. Mansion House, across the street, is a luxury tower.

Then of course we have the upcoming Arcade, which will include some affordable artist lofts plus some market rate units, and the MetroLink station is literally right next to the building. Across the street is the Chemical, which will have market rate, plus the Laclede Group Tower, which may eventually have luxury units. Not far away is Roberts Tower, also luxury.

it'd be terrible if we had economic development, street life, and high rents (aka demand) around a north-south light rail line in the city

There's a lot of room between rising rents pushing people out and crumbling buildings only worth the bricks they're made of.

If we find adding transit raises rents too much, just build more, or build a highway nearby to bring the rents down again

The reason, IMO, that access to Metro link isn't significantly valued in St. Louis is because getting on the train is just one part of the equation. If there's you can't satisfy your basic needs and desires when you get off the train, what's the value?

We haven't done a good enough job building these sorts of things around existing Metro link routes nor have we done a good job taking Metro link to the places that have these things already.

And thus it isn't currently having a major impact on rents. If TOD continues (starts?) successfully, that could change.

Count me among those who won't be making a house-buying decision until Bi-State solidifies plans and pulls permits for a southside Metrolink line...preferably the De Soto route.

Living in Chicago, I can't express how freeing (yes, freeing) it is to live near transit (both train and bus) and spend time walking and riding rather than sitting and driving. I'm sorry, but I can't go back to living a transit-less lifestyle...and I expect there are many others who feel the same way.

Obviously, I'm not living in STL right now, so my opinion means little, but I would definitely support a City-only sales tax to get this thing built and not have to worry about this increasingly prohibitive "regionalism" excuse.

Maybe as part of a City cigarette tax? The tax alone in Chicago, for instance, is a whopping $7.17! Surely, a City-specific additional tax of, say, $0.25 per pack wouldn't send smokers running over the City border.

Give me my Metrolink, STL!

I know people who have moved away because our public transportation isn't as good as Philly, Shitcago, or Portland. People tell me all the time that nobody is going to move here until the north and souths sides are served by MetroLink and/or streetcars. As we know, almost all new construction in the City is in the Central Corridor, specifically near MetroLink stations. Imagine if we had a N-S corridor that was growing this fast as well! But, no, developers realize their best bet is somewhere close to rail. As I have said before, every one of my friends moving to Mid-County or, usually, the City, always ask me: "You know St. Louis pretty well. What's a good area for me to move to that has MetroLink?"

I don't even see why building the N-S line is even a debate. It just shows how messed up our regions transportation and land use policies are. Look at Denver, Minneapolis, Baltimore, Dallas etc. etc. They are all making serious investments in their transportation infrastructure that will give them a major competitive advantage against us. People can fool themselves into believing that Metrolink expansion is not an economic imperative for this region and then scratch their heads in 20 years when cities that used to be our peers have passed us up economically and socially.