urbanSTL

stlhistory wrote:Does Metro publish [transit data]?

Metro is working to add GPS technology to its bus fleet that would allow you to pinpoint bus location, and I think the same technology could be used to analyze speed data as well. Metro has said they won't make the GPS info available until it has been installed throughout the fleet, and I haven't heard any timeline for getting that done.

rbeedee wrote:Metro is working to add GPS technology to its bus fleet that would allow you to pinpoint bus location, and I think the same technology could be used to analyze speed data as well. Metro has said they won't make the GPS info available until it has been installed throughout the fleet, and I haven't heard any timeline for getting that done.

I didn't realize St. Louis didn't have a bus tracker feature yet. That's become pretty much industry standard. I know Kansas City can focus more attention on their bus service (because, of course, they don't have light rail at all!) but that feature has been available on their web site for the more than 3 years I've lived here. Definitely time to get this done.

I've never taken the bus in St. Louis for anything like a daily commute, but they're pretty much universally derided, isn't it?

stlhistory wrote:Does Metro publish [transit data]

This is sooooo frustrating. I don't think there has been station by station ridership data for Metrolink published since 2007. If they want to encourage TOD, they should publish detailed station by station data, so developers can know what kind of foot traffic/benefits to expect from locating near a particular station. Just reporting that 17,000,000 people rode Metrolink last year doesn't cut it.

^Thanks! That's really helpful. Didn't know this document was out there.

Where to next for MetroLink?

Kimberly Cella, of Citizens for Modern Transit, said a long-range Metro plan completed in 2010 identified two light rail expansion corridors for MetroLink: a westward expansion to Westport and the so-called northside/southside alignment connecting downtown St. Louis and the northern and southern parts of both the city and St. Louis County.

Cella said further expansion of MetroLink won’t move forward until the entire area gets on board and Metro formulates an operations plan “that demonstrates operating expenses can be covered for any new expansion.”

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^ Well I guess we will never see a new extension then. I cant see St. Charles or Jefferson County signing on to Metro anytime soon.

moorlander wrote:Cella said further expansion of MetroLink won’t move forward until the entire area gets on board and Metro formulates an operations plan “that demonstrates operating expenses can be covered for any new expansion.”

I think the best way to assure that "operating expenses can be covered" is to:
a) go where people are, and
b) not build out a lot to do it.

That's why, politics be damned, a southside line makes sense at this point. Within a relatively short distance you have a large portion of the population -- many of which currently drive into downtown/Clayton/etc. Any advantage of getting out to the people of Westport are diminished by the distance and necessary grading/demo that comes with it.

If built within the existing De Soto right-of-way (yes, I know, I know -- Union Pacific still uses the route), costs for demolition and construction are diminished greatly and you can more quickly see a ROI in ridership, monthly passes, and new development.

The only problem is, as always, the conflict between building something for the Southside and not the Northside. But from a financial standpoint, the Southside has a denser population and, if this line were built and is successful, could go a long way toward buoying a northside line soon after.

insomniacafe wrote:I've never taken the bus in St. Louis for anything like a daily commute, but they're pretty much universally derided, isn't it?

Depends a lot on the route. I've found the buses to mostly be on time, but outside the major bus lines they run very infrequently so if you miss your bus it may be a 45 minute wait before you get another chance. Some of the routes are also very convoluted and not intuitive, without consulting a map ahead of time it would be hard to figure out if it will take you where you want to go.

I don't think the City of St. Charles would be able to join on its own, and even if they did it would be a pyrrhic victory, they wouldn't be able to raise the sales taxes necessary to build an extension across the Missouri River (they are about 1/4 the size of St. Clair County, Metro's smallest member). Perhaps they could subsidize a few bus routes, but not any Metrolink.

Unfortunately it will probably be a while before there are any Metrolink extensions. The taxpayers have done there part, but there is still the debt from Cross County to pay down, and without funds from Jeff City and Washington there's no money for construction. I think the best bet could be a short extension in St. Clair County, because they, along with the state of Illinois, have been supportive of investing in Metrolink. But besides that any new construction seems unlikely in the near term.

Why not just focus on a small South City extension that hits the areas that are actually growing to bolster that momentum? You wouldn't need much to cover the hot neighborhoods and spur more growth.

^ Unfortunately, downtown employment numbers nor Clayton for that matter even remotely justify the cost for commuter lines - Downtown is a long ways from being Chicago, LA, Atlanta, Boston, San Fran with their heavy transit lines serving downtowns with significant number of employees. Instead, Metro by purusing a separate Express Bus line/station on Washington Ave is taking the right track in my mind. Get something in place that is flexible, can be distinguished from local/street bus service, as well as using existing freeway infrastructure.

What I think is missing between metrolink expansion options for the MO side is a third option to extend the current metrolink lines, Extend Lambert to Earth City/Harrah's Casino (would require a new Lambert through station which I think would be a plus) and extend Cross County metrolink to I-55 via River Des Peres route (would serve both county, city, connect well with existing bus routes and provide for all intents and purposes while offering a south county link to Clayton entral Business District - and might be cheaper than the latest long term south county road/I-44 intersection wish).

As far as IL side, I'm in favor of Illinois continuing putting its money into CHI-STL high speed rail, or least a full blown double track 110 mph service, with any Metro east investment first and foremost going towards the dismal Alton to Downtown STL stretch. Having that reliable, fast and direct link into downtown Chicago will be a huge bonus for St Louis companies from architecture/engineering, to law to marketing/ad firms.

matguy70 wrote:

I've never taken the bus in St. Louis for anything like a daily commute, but they're pretty much universally derided, isn't it?

I wouldn't say that at all.
I ride the buses in STL often - usually when making a connection off of a rail line. Metro buses are pretty nice. They are clean, drivers are usually friendly, and they are well used. In addition, the bus system is quite extensive throughout the metroplex.

Also we have Metro buses and the Metro East, Downtown STL and Metro Stations are also serviced by Madison County Transit buses (the green GO buses) http://www.mct.org/
This system is quite extensive and in areas overlaps with Metro primarily in the Metro East area.

From what I've personally seen the bus in St. Louis isn't any worse than the bus in Kansas City, which I have used for daily commuting, in terms of frequency and quality. It's good to hear others agree and I'm not completely off base. I had a KC native living in St. Louis argue with me for an inordinate amount of time over it, and I probably gave his report more credence than it deserved.

I was watching one of Rick Steve's Europe Through the Back Door segments about Paris. One clip was about dedicated bus lanes that bicyclers are also invited to share. This sounds like a practical idea, since, with bus stops, they all go about the same speed but don't use the lanes 100% of the time.

They also had police escorted bike and roller blade outings in the streets periodically -- maybe weekly on Sundays -- that appeared to be very popular. He was saying this kind of thing earned Paris the reputation as the fun city of Europe.

^^ Bikes ride on streetcar routes in NOLA all the time.