urbanSTL

Just get bus frequencies up and save this money for rail. Why we started over, I don’t know. Will hurt when a couple of these other cities that stuck it out break ground on their rail projects

BRT is never what people think it will be. Go to Omaha or Indy. It’s simply not the same asset as metrolink

The change in leadership was death to our rail project we worked on for 20 years and I will continue to be upset about it. If they want to go back to the drawing board, fine, but it needs to be the city and county and MO and bi-state figuring out how we expand rail. We have a master plan that they can literally pull up and start a competitive plan for funding in the next administration


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Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑

3:25 AM - 1 day ago

addxb2 wrote: ↑

2:53 AM - 1 day ago

I'm also not trying to "make a case". I was highlighting a component of the route adjustment that I thought we could all get excited about. Even my response to goat314 doesn't equate an argument.

You’re arguing with people who’ll never be happy unless billions are spent on a low ridership rail line that would embarrass St. Louis like the Loop Trolley did.

I don't think comparing a N-S Green Line to the loop trolley is totally fair, but there are similarities.  The problem with the loop trolley is the line stopped at a point where it almost became useful.  Maybe that was by design to get Forest Park Forever (and their wallet) involved, but having the loop trolley hit all the main attractions in forest park, with metro & loop access (maybe even CWE access) would have been amazing.  I still think they should finish it.

Personally, I think STL should sacrifice 14th street for a N-S green line.  
North line: 14th street to Florissant and then over to Fairground Park via Natural Bridge/Palm.
South line: 14th south to Gravois and then Gravois down to Grand.

You connect Gravois Park, Benton Park, Soulard, Lafayette Square, the Multi-Modal Transportation Center, City Hall/Clark Street, STL Library, Old North St. Louis, NGA (few blocks away) and Fairground Park.   

Plus, you calm down Gravois, overlap multiple Greenway intersections for bikers/riders.  If you need a new Metro depot, you can expand the Transportation Center in one of the many parking lots nearby, or drop a new Metro depot in an empty lot at 14th/Florissant.  

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

2:40 PM - Today

Just get bus frequencies up and save this money for rail. Why we started over, I don’t know. Will hurt when a couple of these other cities that stuck it out break ground on their rail projects

BRT is never what people think it will be. Go to Omaha or Indy. It’s simply not the same asset as metrolink

The change in leadership was death to our rail project we worked on for 20 years and I will continue to be upset about it. If they want to go back to the drawing board, fine, but it needs to be the city and county and MO and bi-state figuring out how we expand rail. We have a master plan that they can literally pull up and start a competitive plan for funding in the next administration


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I agree on upping bus frequencies as the most urgent thing, but with what the city's collecting in sales tax, you can't both be improving the bus services and saving up for rail. It's either or.

Yes like PeterXCV said, bettering existing bus route frequencies and stop amenities needs to come from existing (or new) funding structures, not the rapid transit infrastructure fund that's been building. Key word there is rapid. The BRT route as proposed with fully exclusive transit lanes, signal priority, further spaced stations, and off-board fare collection, and 10-15 minute frequencies will be fast and efficient to get people from North City and South City to MetroLink, bus connections at Civic Center, and employment centers downtown, in the same fashion as LRT would, period.
Examples from Omaha and Kansas City are not rapid transit, they are slow moving mixed traffic streetcars built mainly for tourists and to enrich the denser urban cores. Green Line's goal is not to be a circulator between some attractions, but a real mode of rapid transit, that frankly does not pass through many high property value or sales income areas (besides downtown) that would allow for TIF and transit districts to fund its construction like in KC or OMA. At $200M+ a mile and growing for light rail, there is very little reality in continuing to propose rail expansion that meets the same speed and length goals that BRT is proposing in STL's case. With only $100M saved in about 10 years and only growing $16-17M a year, it would take decades to fund just the proposed BRT alignment in rail without billions from the Federal government, which has been determined to be unlikely to happen under any admin. Yes it stings they taunted us with rail for so long.. but it's simply not a reality to accomplish the goals of a rapid North/South transit line.

Not saying people can't dream and propose things, but the time for drawing imaginary lines on a map is over for this specific project (that includes continuing to push a Gravois route, MODOT is well into redesigning it now for the next 30 years and they are not and will not plan for dedicated transit lanes on it). A publicly planned preferred route has been chosen and it is time to actually design and build the thing, or else we're looking at tacking on more years, more tens of millions, more headache...