urbanSTL

Feds are stream lining the environmental work but you can stream line it to a week it doesn't matter if the money isn't there or the locality drags its feet. What have we done in this region without delays?

^ good point. Everything takes twice as long in St. Louis. Perfect example, KC streetcar was conceived, planned, engineered, broke ground, and completed (planning other phases), when the Delmar Trolley, which still hasn't been completed, was conceived years before it.

Goat, I think you could argue a 2-3 mile city streetcar modeled after KC Streetcar that has free ridership. City bonds to pay for initial build and transportation improvement district tax for operating reveniue. However, I think your back to the original central corridor routing where you could derive a local transportation tax base from for operating revenue. Tweak the routing with a proposed N-S alignment from NGIA/near northside to near southside with future expansion north and south as well as future push to CWE.

Don't know enough about KC streetcar but believe they touted revenues of 11 million on operating cost of 7 million on first six or the first year of operation. However, the revenues believe is all tax collection along the corridor. The only problem in St. Louis is all the new tax money is given back to the developers.

dbInSouthCity wrote:NS study done May 2018
Everyone looks at it for 8-10 months
Now we are into early 2019
Region decides to move forward
Late 2019 vote for a sales tax to fund the $200m project development (9% of construction cost)
2021 apply for new starts
Get new starts in 2025-2026ish
NS open 2030

That's a longer time-frame than it took for Metrolink to plan and build both of the previous two extensions combined. (It opened in 1993. The Shrewsbury extension opened to traffic in 2006.) The city passed the first Memorandum of Agreement for Cross County in November of 2002. They had butts in seats less than four years later. If you can get the study done the political will to move things forward a little quicker than your fourteen year timeline seems to be there. If the study is done in May of 2018 it could be on the ballot in the fall of 2018. I don't see why this would involve even the degree of heel dragging there was over the alignment between Forest Park and Clayton. Anyone remember the tunnel under Forest Park that was proposed? (There were three alternatives: a bored out tunnel, a cut and cover tunnel, and the not under the park alternative. Think of them as gold, silver, and copper plans.) The fight was ugly . . . but less than 8-10 months as I recall. And we've already had some of those fights and some of that public comment on N/S, and no one is proposing cutting through Tower Grove or tearing up Clayton's favorite shortcut for three years. We can rehash things a little quicker. (As long as we can disregard Stenger's theatre, and I'm beginning to think we can.)

I fully agree that this is a process that will take time, but I think you're timeline is a little bit pessimistic and it could probably be shaved down quite a bit. Maybe it takes six or seven years, but some of the legwork has already been done. That won't all go away. And transit projects happen in all flavors of administrations. (What is a wall if not a massive infrastructure project? Who signed off on the interstate system? And who was in charge when that Shrewsbury extension funded and started moving forward?) Your points and concerns are legitimate, but hopefully things won't be as dire as all that.

^ Cross County was all locally funded...biggest variable here is that here is no New Starts Funds free until mid 2020s

City-County Metrolink Rivalry Contines

"The city-county rivalry over where to expand Metrolink continues as the Acting Administrator of the Federal Transportation Authority (FTA) met separately with city and county officials.........."

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2016/11/04/ ... continues/

A St. Louis Gondola?
“Proponents of the gondola argue that it is far cheaper and quicker to build than a Metro station.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a- ... ge%2Fstory

Rip n/s metrolink. Thanks Trump

What about this promise from Trump:

Trump’s plan calls for “tax holidays for inner-city investment, and new tax incentives to get foreign companies to relocate in blighted American neighborhoods.” He said that he would equate urban blight with disaster status to speed revitalization efforts, and noted the creation of a $1 trillion infrastructure investment fund for aging cities.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/trumps ... -and-hope/

Trump said a lot of things....I currently don't believe he'll do anything to help inner-cities. Love to be wrong but doubtful

gary kreie wrote:What about this promise from Trump:

Trump’s plan calls for “tax holidays for inner-city investment, and new tax incentives to get foreign companies to relocate in blighted American neighborhoods.” He said that he would equate urban blight with disaster status to speed revitalization efforts, and noted the creation of a $1 trillion infrastructure investment fund for aging cities.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/trumps ... -and-hope/

He promised to cut taxes, increase spending, and reduce the debt. That's impossible. We'll see which leg of his magical fantasy platform gets cut, but my money is on anything that helps cities.

And anything transportation related might be to double down on things that create more sprawl. Especially since due to various factors, I could see the patterns of white flight and sprawl pick up again here and nationally.

And likely even less help to none from Jefferson City as well.

Yet, some pretty big massive tax measures passed locally for transit. Believe both Seattle's and LA's massive deal passed. BART was a big winner here in the Bay Area with Measure RR & Santa Clara county voting to extend BART into downtown San Jose. Where their is demand and some courage to put it on the ballont transit got some major funding this election season. It just didn't happen in St. Louis and the Feds will support places where the locals will spend.

You guys should read the GOP platform on transportation. More highways and getting Feds out of the transit funding business along with biking and walking. Says those are all local issues

^ I wouldn't put too much stock in the GOP platform other than tax cuts for the rich... seems pretty clear Trump and the party see eye to eye on that. The rest of the platform will be influenced by how strongly Trump feels about the particular items.; if Trump feels strongly about transit there will be transit.

US Cities, Spurned by Washington, Fund Transit Themselves
https://www.wired.com/2016/11/us-cities ... d-transit/

dbInSouthCity wrote:You guys should read the GOP platform on transportation. More highways and getting Feds out of the transit funding business along with biking and walking. Says those are all local issues

I would say the Senate has been reading the same GOP platform for years and hasn't budge on transit funding. Have they increased transit funding significantly? No, that won't change until House changes hands. Did the GOP Majority get rid of transit funding with the 5 yr transportation FAST Act? No, because all three have to agree (House, Senate and President) Will anything change? I doubt it as Senators are elected at large and even Senators with voters in Miami, Dallas, Houston, Charolette, Atlanta understand that transit in cities work. Not too mention a President Elect from NY whose business interests/employees for the most part are in cities and rely on transit & a US Chamber of Commerce that supports that only wants less red tape but also supports infrastructure spending across the board and has for years..

Will they give states more leeway on bike, pedestrian? Most likely. That is the one change I believe is coming. A lot of Red States in central US will go all in on paving. Coastal States whether it be West or East, Blue or Red have to many urban areas that need all the above when it comes to transportation.

I don't see any bright spot in this election outcome. I think if anything the nation will continue down the road of further balkanization. All I hear is tax cuts for the rich and reducing federal involvement in domestic policy. In a state like Missouri, that spells disaster for a city like St. Louis and any aspirations of a N/S Metrolink expansion. In less than a week, N/S went from a 50/50 to a 25/75 in my opinion.

If you guys were hoping for money from Trump's infrastructure plan for N-S, I have bad news for you from Trump's official policy paper:

http://peternavarro.com/sitebuildercont ... report.pdf

Borrowing some analysis from a friend of mine:







His "infrastructure plan" is a secret tax-credit for energy companies and real estate tycoons like the Trump Organization. No airports or bridges are going to get built on this plan. It's allowing for massive tax credits in exchange for investing anything that can be remotely defined as construction and has a rate of return. It might create a housing bubble, it might create privately own energy pipeline. It's not paving a single city street or adding any rail.

Anyone who thought otherwise...I mean it's been proven time and time again that Republicans don't care about public transit at all

If it became very clear over the next year that federal funding wasn't going to be there, could we self fund a ~2 mile starter line? Chateau to Cass for example.


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goat314 wrote:I don't see any bright spot in this election outcome. I think if anything the nation will continue down the road of further balkanization. All I hear is tax cuts for the rich and reducing federal involvement in domestic policy. In a state like Missouri, that spells disaster for a city like St. Louis and any aspirations of a N/S Metrolink expansion. In less than a week, N/S went from a 50/50 to a 25/75 in my opinion.

And I wonder if 25% chance is even high, especially with state government being what it is. The other thing is that social tensions is increasing a mass transit backlash and could spur a new round of white flight. Since transit policy is as much a cultural function and dealing with social attitude aspects.