mcarril wrote: I give credit to Whittiker for pushing St Charles to bring metrolink to the area.....
I oppose the extension of the metro link to St. Charles. I feel that it will carry crime into the city as well as bad architecture and cheap tract houseing.
mcarril wrote: I give credit to Whittiker for pushing St Charles to bring metrolink to the area.....
I oppose the extension of the metro link to St. Charles. I feel that it will carry crime into the city as well as bad architecture and cheap tract houseing.
My wife and I went to check out New Town yesterday. We were faced with the same dichotomy that other here have experienced: On one hand, we were pleased to see the layout of the development, the quality and variety of construction, and pleasing aesthetics overall. OTOH, we found it to be somewhat creepy. Even with plenty of pedestrians, parked cars, and traffic, it still seemed quite vacuous. It didn't take long to cue the stereotypes of Children of the Corn, Stepford, Wisteria Lane, etc.
My wife swears that she would live in fear of having a microchip installed in her brain, just as the Stepford Wives had. Is that irrational? Hmmm... I don't know!
The development is certainly functional- even on a cold February day we witnessed many people walking throughout the community. The Prancing Pony bookstore/coffeehouse appeared to be quite busy- so much that we chose to wait until another time to try it out.
It's certainly a huge step forward compared to other suburban tract developments. I hope its principles are applied in future developments, particularly in Saint Charles County where wiser land use policies and a stronger sense of community are needed IMHO. However, I believe true urbanity and community cannot be created out of thin air, or a cornfield. It's an organic process that transcends buildings, people, and time. I'm happy for those that will make this place a success, but I'll stick to the City of Saint Louis and experience the real thing!
Not trying to shill New Town (I'm not happy with the name either), just my personal experience. My wife and I were looking for a while for someplace new to live. We've lived fairly happily in the Grand-Oakhill neighborhood for about 18 years now, but we really need to be closer to my parents and my wife's parents. We're actually only the 3rd owners of our current house (built in 1938, I looked up at the downtown library). We've seen good and bad neighbors come and go. Moving out to New Town appears to be more, I don't know how to express it, more like the town I grew up in. Or more or less the way I remember it, if not in actuality.
There are things we really like about New Town. There are things that I'm not too wild about also. Some of it does seem a bit contrived, but I think the end goal is a worthwhile one. We're happy we know a few people that are already in Phase 1, because that helps us with what decisions we make for our house.
I think the main thing is that people should find someplace they'll be happy living. I personally hate the cookie-cutter subdivisions that have been popping up everywhere in St. Louis and St. Charles counties, talk about sterile. We're happy with our choice, although I've been working a 2nd job to help to build our nestegg to do it.
It's these kinds of developments that could do a lot to bring back parts of St. Louis city. Although the exodus from the city has apparently slowed in the last couple of years, there are whole sections of the city that are just waiting for something, anything, to happen. I could go into a real diatribe about city politics, but there aren't enough hours in the day. Of course, I've been reading about the politics in St. Charles, and I'm suprised the stuff going on up at their city hall isn't in the news. *heh heh heh*
It's these kinds of developments that could do a lot to bring back parts of St. Louis city.
You're exactly right on this point, this type of development seems tailor-made for some of the abandoned area's of American cities. So far the New urbanist movement hasn't shown it can do anything other than build pretty suburbs. dc, I'm glad you had a good experience there. It seems like home values are appreciating well in this development and I'm interested to see how it works out (especially the retail component). The homes are beautiful and perhaps over time it will lose some of the falseness and acquire some of the quirkiness that we like about urban environments.
So I couldn't glean this from your post, do you live there now? do you visit the shops? Do you mind walking to get your mail?
So I couldn't glean this from your post, do you live there now? do you visit the shops? Do you mind walking to get your mail?
We don't live there yet, our plot is in phase 2 near the organic farm. We have been to the Prancing Pony and a lot of the events this past fall. We kept trying to get to the free movie nights, but with little kids it just didn't work out. The Prancing Pony was kind of cool (good food), but it will definitely be better with warmer weather.
One of the downsides is the very limited post office they have for everybody in phase 1. You HAVE to pay for a dinky box and when your mail doesn't fit (which ours will rarely fit), your mail goes to an overflow box and they put the key to it in your box. Well, there are only so many overflow boxes and they can't keep up with the mail as it is. That is something that needs to definitely be looked at and fixed.
I think that you are correct that after some of the "newness" wears off, it is going to acquire a certain charm.
digitalcaffeine wrote:I think that you are correct that after some of the "newness" wears off, it is going to acquire a certain charm.
I agree that as the area ages we'll grow to love it.
As for the mail, the new post office located between the town hall and grocery store is nearly finished. Look for bigger mailboxes there.
I've met with Greg Whittaker as well as all the architectural staff and I have to say I'm highly impressed. Although this project will keep them busy for the next 10-15 years I've gotten a sense of interest in doing a brownfield project.
Urban Review St. Louis wrote: Although this project will keep them busy for the next 10-15 years I've gotten a sense of interest in doing a brownfield project.
Excellent! Perhaps New Town can serve as a model for the city to show how some decimated neighborhoods can be revived. I assume the problem with doing a project like this in the city is acquiring the large parcel of land to develop. Maybe some sort of redevelopment authority could be formed to acquire land in city neighborhoods that are extremely run down.
stl555 wrote:Perhaps New Town can serve as a model for the city to show how some decimated neighborhoods can be revived. I assume the problem with doing a project like this in the city is acquiring the large parcel of land to develop. Maybe some sort of redevelopment authority could be formed to acquire land in city neighborhoods that are extremely run down.
The city already has authorities for assembling land. However, I don't think that is needed. Our existing street grid is already the foundation we need to rebuild.
I hope New Town will serve as a model to show as we rebuild our city that houses can be close together, alleys can be clean and interesting, attached garages can be connected via a hallway rather than smashed up against the back of the building and concrete siding is an attractive alternative to the vinyl siding and token brick veneer we get in city projects.
We were visiting our patch of dirt at New Town and went into the sales office to visit with the staff there and discovered some new items coming (at some point). They extended the organic farm, which we think is great because that will be the view out our front window. And they are apparently going to put in an ice/roller rink in the area across the canal from the Town Hall. Of course, none of the sales people had much on the details. Still cool though.
The weather must have really helped them catch up a bit, because they told us they started calling phase 2 people (although not us) to schedule selections. So at least the small part of phase 2 that we are in, is supposedly going to be completed by the end of the year (pocket park and all). Depending on the weather, we may get to move out there around early to mid-October.
All that being said, it doesn't seem like they have made much progress on the live/work units in the last couple of weeks. I think one of the things that is definitely going to help New Town will be when all the little business get going. I know back in 2004 Greg Whittaker was trying to convince Metro to extend metrolink or establish a feeder system for people that are going to live in New Town. Does anybody know if that went anywhere? Personally, that would be a great help to me as I currently work near a metrolink stop.
I too was hoping to see more progress on the live/work units as well as the larger storefront/living units on the "crescent." All in due time --- I have to remember we are at least a decade away from full build-out (if not more).
If I were to live somewhere besides the City of St. Louis I think New Town would be it. I just couldn't deal with the drive to civilization.
Don't look for MetroLink out there anytime soon. Even if it were to make it to St. Charles I'm not sure it would get that direction. But, a couple I know uses MetroLink often to get to their jobs downtown --- they drive to the Hanley Station. Perhaps residents can start a carpool program?
^At least, they should have a bus that connects New Town to Metro, if not connecting directly to Metrolink. Perhaps after full build out that can happen. Does St. Charles currently have bus service to the nearest Metro station?
St Charles City does have a bus/shuttle service (I don't believe that the county has any kind of bus service.) There is a line the runs from Cave Springs and I-70 but that doesn't provide service to the western portion of the county where the majority on the population is today. Hopefully St Charles City will add bus service from New Town to the Old Town area (that just comes off the tongue weird) and to the Hanley Station once New Town has reached a critical mass of inhabitants. You would think all the people moving in for the New Urbanism would be will to take public transportation right?
Seriously, a new urbanist development conceived by the actual movement founders gives great credibility to future growth, re-growth, and is a much more sustainable lifestyle and suburb than today's spaghetti lanes and colloquial subdivisions in St. Charles County.
The only problem is location! Floodplains and surrounded on the southwest by industry is not good.
mcarril wrote: You would think all the people moving in for the New Urbanism would be will to take public transportation right?
I think a lot of people's (st. louisans and st. charlesians) love for urbanism stops at wanting to own a cute row-house. I don't think many people willing to drop $250K+ on a house in St. Charles would be interested in hopping on a bus to get somewhere...I could be proven wrong. More likely it'll have to be some sort of rail to achieve wide usage. I don't mean this as criticism, just an observation. I call myself a city lover, and I rarely take the bus.
The cool thing is that it could conceivably be possible to live without a car there, for those who choose that option.
Don't you think an express bus that leaves from New Town & Old Town and shuttled people directly to a Metrolink station would have some popularity. These people would then be directly linked to employment centers of the Central Corridor. I honestly don't think they would mind doing that, if it were an option. Truth be told, I can't believe this option doesn't already exist.
SMSPlanstu wrote:The only problem is location! Floodplains and surrounded on the southwest by industry is not good.
I will definitely grant you that one! One of the first things we took a look at was where did the flood of '93 high water mark get to on the property. Fortunately, the water barely made it across the road at the time, according to some Army Corps of Engineer stuff I saw. By raising the level of earth up several feet (I believe six), which by the time you dig the basement is only a couple of feet into the original soil. I don't think we'll be horribly affected by the water table.
Btw, we were over at the selections building yesterday and I asked why the live/work units were coming along so slowly. I was told that each building is made up of 4 units and they have to get all 4 of the property owners into selections and give their deposit before they can start pouring the foundation for the whole building structure.
I'm really hoping for some sort of mass transit availablity or connectivity. It would make my life easier for getting to downtown. Especially if I can every afford baseball tickets again. And since I didn't win the powerball, I have to keep working my 2nd job to help pay for everything. *heh*
Expat wrote:Don't you think an express bus that leaves from New Town & Old Town and shuttled people directly to a Metrolink station would have some popularity. These people would then be directly linked to employment centers of the Central Corridor. I honestly don't think they would mind doing that, if it were an option. Truth be told, I can't believe this option doesn't already exist.
it could work, especially for things like Cardinal games where parking is a problem. I?m just thinking that most people buying into New Town are fairly well off, and have cars and jobs that offer free parking, and thus would be less likely to use public transit on a day-to-day basis (especially transit that involves a bus and a transfer). Maybe the New Towners will prove this to be wrong, I don?t know.
stl555 wrote:it could work, especially for things like Cardinal games where parking is a problem. I?m just thinking that most people buying into New Town are fairly well off, and have cars and jobs that offer free parking, and thus would be less likely to use public transit on a day-to-day basis (especially transit that involves a bus and a transfer). Maybe the New Towners will prove this to be wrong, I don?t know.
I think a shuttle to a metrolink station could have a lot of popularity. I know that there will be a lot of people out there that are a lot more financially well off than my wife and I. However, I know that we've run into more than a few people that are really stretching things to get into a house there. My current parking fee is $60/month, which I think is pretty standard for parking downtown. And that doesn't allow me to park for special events either, just Monday thru Friday. But in terms of gas/wear and tear on the car, taking metrolink would be worth it. And if you are talking a big event like baseball, parking can be very expensive. My wife is lucking out as the company that she works for is moving to the Earth City area. She'll be able to get to/from work without too much trouble.
Most people in West County are well off and have cars, but some use express bus service to downtown. I would think NewTown would be the same. And it isn't a matter of having parking available, I think they do it to avoid the stress of a commute. I guess it depends on where they work. My assumption (probably wrong) is that many work in the Central Corridor. If NewTownies don't work in the Central Corridor, transit wouldn't be a good option. Interesting question, where do people in New Town work?
I don't know. I am guessing some small businesses, and maybe corporations which are headquatered in St. Charles: Citi, Mastercard, etc.
Maybe some people do work in St. Louis City/County? I still do not understand why people would work in St. Louis City/County and then drive through horrible traffic. It is so much easier to live near your job.
Granted New Town took into consideration of the floodplain and selected a site that was NOT under water in 1993. Good. However, other developers may get unscrupulous and build adjascent to New Town on areas that were under water and will be again. Earth City was one of those places.
Next,
Earth City, Riverport, and Westport business areas employ thousands if not more than the number in Clayton and have the disadvantage of not being on a walkable grid. These are the places where a good amount of St. Charles workers commute to and each would be worth a Metro station IF and only IF they could cluster the buildings into a walkable layout. Maybe Tyson's Corner has a lesson for these places.
Expat,
What are places that have turned suburban job districts into walkable or transit possible places?
