urbanSTL

Some of the developments I've seen would indicate it ain't only the styrofoam that's plastered.

I was in the area yesterday so I figured I'd check out this development . The houses look very nice and there was enough variety that it doesn't resemble your typical cookie cutter subdivision. Developers in the City of St. Louis should take some cues from these houses and use the same type of materials for their exteriors. A lot of the houses have all brick exteriors and the one's with siding use concrete which looks a hundred times better than vinyl and is much more environmentally friendly.



However, the fact that it's a couple miles off of 370 and in the middle of nowhere frankly sucks. You have to drive past industrial parks and down a country road just to get there although I don't think it will be like this forever. They should be building developments like this in the triangle or Wentzville instead of the middle of nowhere.



My biggest gripe is that they built a lot of the residential streets so that if there are cars parked on both sides two-way traffic is impossible. I realize this is supposed to be a walkable community and there will be alleys, but most people will park on the street. Granted this isn't a major concern, but I'd be worried about some folks losing their mirrors! Also, people need lessons on how to drive on a roundabout as I about rear-ended a car that stopped in the middle of it to let a car in, but that'll happen in time(hopefully)



Overall it's nice and next time when it isn't friggin' cold I'll get out of my car and walk around.

Narrow streets are an essential part of Traditional Neighborhood Development. Such natural traffic calming slows down cars without speed-bumps, curvy streets, or cul-de-sacs.

Recently moving from unincorporated St. Charles to St. Louis City for many reasons, I would like to give my 0.02.



These developments are nothing more than warehousing for soccer moms who feel uncomfortable in the 'dangerous' city; they wish to have the same community feel which is expressed in many city neighborhoods without the 'scary' african americans, or 'rampant' crime. This place has no historical buildings, no culture, and is pure mass produced crap. The building quality appears to be better than Winghaven, but, the concept is inherently the same: build an isolated community where no one has to leave and be exposed to the dangerous outside world. This is bad for the metro area because unless people of different cultures interact, they will never remove old biases and stereotypes.



I have seen a few new houses on the Hill, near Zias, which replicate the old style of building in that neighborhood quite well. I would not tell it was a newer building until my Uncle, who lives there, informed me of this. If I cannot tell, and I am no architecture student, them I am sure the soccer moms would be satisfied. If there is concern over making newer houses in St. Louis more like the neighborhood, then, why not use used bricks? St. Louis is the top exporter of used bricks in the world, along with Detroit, I believe.



I hope it floods! It's called a flood plain for a reason.

Very, very well said, pc! However, I would not wish a disaster on anyone, but I don't really think you would mean you'd want someone to suffer great loss...do you?

The problem is this: in times passed, a great deal of craftsmanship was employed in building. Sadly, over time, cheaper and cheaper ways were sought by builders to make a profit. With outrageous demands for salaries in jobs such as carpentry and masonry, what else could be done? These people, through their unions, have priced themselves out of the kind of detail and craftmanship that once was commonplace and a source of great pride. I wonder how many of these (so called experts in their trade) would lay brick patterns/arches/etc. in the traditional method without great additional cost? Look at almost any new structure and see the lack of detail. Look at all the old structures where it is commonplace.

In other words, there used to be great pride in building by the builder and craftsman that helped put it together. Today, that kind of pride seems to be almost completely amiss.

IMO, it all has to do with greed. Greedy builders/developers, greedy "craftsmen" and greedy people buying them, thinking they're really getting something wonderful because its new and far away from "those people". Greed and ignorance go hand in hand.



And, I know what you mean, and I'm with ya.



P.S. I'm not familiar with it, so I'll have to check out that badass place...you've got me quite curious!

^*Rubs hands*



I'm going in...

I was going by New Town and decided to drive through it, since I haven't before...Its actually quite nice, although towards the outskirts of it I kinda got a Children of the Corn vibe...I'm sure it will be filled in eventually LoL...i kinda liked it, it was on a Saturday afternoon and saw lots of people walking around with their kids, some sitting on their porches...interesting development to say the least...does anyone know if there are any other developments like this (planning, setup, concept, etc) in the U.S.??

^Yes, Absolut, these types of neighborhoods are going up all over the county. Kentlands, Maryland and Celebration, Florida are two that I have seen. Do some googling on New Urbanism to find others. It is an interesting subject.

Feaux Urbanism, not new urbanism.

Yes, I hope it looks and feels better at street level.

Put a dome on it with a sea shore, and it's Truman's world (aka Seaside, Florida).

Well, at least they won't have to drop fake snow on shoppers from rooftops like they do in Celebration, FL.

southslider wrote:Put a dome on it with a sea shore, and it's Truman's world (aka Seaside, Florida).

I've been there before. That has to be one of the coolest (and creepiest) cities in the US. I'm not sure what the goal of that place was, but it sure has a unique community feel with a very urban atmosphere. The creepy part was realizing this was a movie set for six months, and people actually live there.



Similarly to New Town though, the streets were very empty at certain times of the day and night. There is hardly any activity outside the downtown area. When I visited New Town a few months ago, I had Seaside in mind the whole time. It may be fabricated and set in unrealistic locations, but it's still a step ahead to the future, and is MUCH better than the typical suburbs. Kudos to St. Charles for doing this.

Also to note, Seaside is a (mostly) summer home/2nd home development. It wasn't really intended to be a year round community. (although I think it may be evolving that way a bit.) I've been to New Town (terrible, terrible name) and I think it's the real deal. There's going to be close to 10,000 people living there when it's all said and done. That's larger than say Richmond Heights or Maplewood in a smaller area. And it is more impressive at street level than what you get from the arial view. Walking down the main street with the houses and townhomes up on the sidewalk, with few curb cuts, it reminded me of the city in a way. Sure I could turn and look out over a vast open field, but let's not forget, this is still in phase one of eleven, I think. There is also a tree farm on the north end of the site that will fill in some on the empty area's with mature tree's. No, it's not going to be a city. I'm not sure we'll ever see a "new city" in the states that will compare to the ones that already exist, St Louis, Boston, Cincinnati, etc. But for what New Town is, I really think they are doing it right. I give credit to Whittiker for pushing St Charles to bring metrolink to the area and also for pushing for a streetcar system to connect New Town with downtown St Charles.

That photo is horrible, but the other street level pics I have seen are pleasant. I haven't been there, but have seen the pics, and visited similar developments and I agree, it is vastly better than subdivisions built in the last few decades. I certainly do give them credit and hope other suburban developers take note. The whole concept is interesting to me and tells me that we have turned a corner in a positive direction. And if they get these "new towns" connected to transit, they are modern versions of streetcar suburbs. It is easy to make fun of them because they look fake in their newness. But all neighborhoods were new once. Of course to some of us, they represent the continued decline of older neighborhoods. But, that is a completely different issue and has nothing to do with the quality of the development. It should be compared to other subdivisions currently being developed, not with Webster Groves or St. Louis Hills. Having said all that, I do understand the critics.

Expat, closer to your neck of the woods, what do you think of the Kentlands area in Gaithersburg? From everything I've read, it is the standard bearer for "New Urbanism" Developments. The pictures I've seen seem to bear that out as well. It would seem to be a fairly good comparison to New Town (but with a better name) Large parcel of undeveloped land, fairly far from the center city, and designed by the same firm, Duany Plater-Zyberk. Since Kentlands is now 15 years old it may be abe to give us an idea of where New Town will be in 2020. (With the addition of hover-cars of course.)

Yes, I figured New Town was like the Kentlands in Maryland. The Kentlands has been a huge success, is very beautiful, and has set a new standard in this region. May favorite thing about the Kentlands is the way they mixed little cottages, townhouses, & big houses together. Of course, they are all expensive. I think it will always have higher real estate values than it's neighboring ordinary developments. Every suburban jurisdiction now wants its own version of the Kentlands. I think that is the most important thing about it. They have changed the way people think. People figured out that new development doesn't have to be miserable. They haved added a new section to the Kentlands called Lakeland. I don't like it as much. It is dense, walkable, etc., but I don't think they paid as much attention to architectural detail and it suffers from newness. The retail portion of the Kentlands has been a disappointment to me. The Kentlands was built several years ago, and I don't think retailers were ready to take the plunge into Main Street style stores, so the developers chickened out. So much of the retail district is really nothing more than a fancy strip center. But, they have added a little Main Street area that is nice looking. The Main Street concept has caught on with retailers and if the Kentlands were built today, I think it would have had a better retail component. From what I can tell, they do have a sense of community. The people I know that live there absolutely love it. It is considered a desirable address.