urbanSTL

village idiot wrote:The problem this place has with Saint Charles is imaginary. Saint Charles is no more suburban than Saint Ann is.

I don't know how many people on here have a problem with St. Charles City - its fairly urban and very historic, and the school district isn't in complete chaos. I'd visit way more often if metrolink went out there, but we/they didn't want it (i wasn't old enough to vote...i'm a native of St. Charles City). I think the main beef is with the whole "golden triangle" mentality, the belief that a "new St. Louis" should be rebuilt far far away from the troubles of the "old St. Louis...," and lets berate and make fun of its troubles in complete and total ignorance and put cardinals stickers on our cars and call ourselves St. Louisans. I grew up with this...it's not imaginary. I think an informed as well as wildly ignorant counter reaction should be expected in a metro that's literally tearing apart to the northwest.

Well it looks like NIMBY ism is rearing it's head in New Town:



http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... mentAnchor



At least some of the folks get it that having businesses within wallking distance is going to mean a little more noise.



And of course the same haters who think all urban living, whether it be a neighborhood 100 yrs. old in the city or a new one in the floodpain, is akin to communism are doing what they do best in the comments section

I didn't want New Town to be built where it was built, but now that it is there I don't want it to fail.



Today there is news that the ice rink won't open this winter.



I worry that eventually this will wind up being just another subdivision. Albeit with different homestyles than most.



Winghaven is already headed down that path.



I hope I am wrong, but this is another instance where if New Town had been built contigous with older neighborhoods instead of out on it's own they would be better off.



It was a risk Whittaker took by building it out there. If it was a smashing success all the acolades would go to them, whereas integrating it into older established areas would not have that same effect IMO.



Just my two pennies worth.

I don't think New Urbanism is dead at all. The recession and housing bust is killing off development everywhere, both urban and suburban.



Certainly, New Town would have been better off if better connected with surrounding areas, but I'm sure it will eventually be completed, and many people will love living there.

Does anybody know if New Town is applying for LEED for Neighborhood Development? I'd imagine that New Town would be perfect for this rating since its a model of new urbanism communities. Here's a link to more about LEED for Neighborhood Development:

http://www.cnu.org/leednd

Yes I completely agree. However, with only the first few phases being complete and many left to go, it will be interesting to see if it can develop a strong business/retail core. Also, it will be neat to see how New Town, when completed, fits in with the existing parts of St. Charles and if new urbanism and smart code guidelines will be implemented, especially for infill along the Northern Highway 94 corridor between New Town and the Frenchtown, Main Street area. I guess the best way to judge New Town's success is the way in which it influences new development around St. Charles in the future.

Yeah, New Town definitely got off to a great start, but with the economic downturn, New Town isn't booming like it was before. Furthermore, most people move to St. Charles looking for new suburban development, and New Town doesn't fit that profile. Also, most people looking to live in a city environment look towards older and more developed areas. I can agree with you in some aspects because with a limited group of people looking to live in an urban environment, New Town unfortunately has to compete against the city, and I would bet that the city will win that one.

Alex Ihnen wrote:Interesting take - seeing if New Town will influence other developments. My bet is that New Town is never finished as planned, never gets a streetcar and never grows together with St. Charles with any kind of urban development. I could be wrong.

A cynic is not merely one who reads bitter lessons from the past, he is one who is prematurely disappointed in the future.

snap!

Last time I was in New Town, I noticed a big sign for homes on "up to 1/2 acre" lots right in the middle of town (near the big lake). I doubt those lot sizes were in the original master plan.

Clearly there are problems with New Town's location and probably the whole idea of building "new towns" too, but I thought the first few phases of New Town were executed about as well as could be expected. The public spaces are really nice and the diversity in housing types actually generates a little bit of character. It'll be interesting to see if that quality/diversity is repeated in later phases. Unfortunately, I doubt it if they're going to sell 1/2 acre lots.

Yes, New Town is selling 1/2 acre sites now. I'd imagine that, like "South Compton" said, "I doubt those lot sizes were in the original master plan." I would imagine that adjacent land became available and New Town purchased it.

As far as the development phases go, I believe there are about 10 phases total, and they are currently working on four of them: phases 1,2,3,and 10. Here's the link to the masterplan: http://www.newtownatstcharles.com/PDF/NewTownMap.pdf

So New Town still has a very long way to go. And, despite the economic downturn, new construction is still going on, but probably not at the pace it was before.

And I agree, New Town has great architecture and housing styles that would make for perfect infill projects in other parts of the region.

Last year I participated in the New Town Triathlon. In the months leading up to the race, and even a couple months afterward, I would bike the flats north of New Town to familiarize myself with the race course and train for the viscous headwinds out there (actually, the road-bike racing community, apparently, considers those flats prime training ground for upping your cadence - the headwinds really are something).

Here are my few puts on New Town:
1) For many, the place is a bit weird, made only more weird by the fact that the development is not even half complete.
2) That said, the people that live there absolutely love living there. And, they were so warm and welcoming to the Triathletes that were competing out there who were blocking the streets and otherwise causing a large commotion in their neighborhood. One gal had even set up a hose with a shower head that you could run under during the running leg of the race; really nice people out there.
3) In this regard, I draw a small comparison to the people that live in New Town and the people that live in the City - others may not like their choice, some may openly put them down for doing it, but they love were they live so much they just don't give a what what, and they're happy to have visitors.
4) All that said, that farmers that live and work the land around New Town absolutely despise its inhabitants and the athletes that come out there to train on their flat, windy roads. I can't tell you how many times I was cussed at or had cars purposely come close to trying to hit me. I saw a couple of farm guys talking in their lane as I rode by. I decided to say, "hello", to them and they promptly told me to, "fu-- off". Kind of a scary deal when you're ten miles out of New Town on farm roads with hostiles around you. Perhaps thats how someone from St. Charles feels when they get off of I-70 north of the Dome?

ttricamo wrote: 1) For many, the place is a bit weird, made only more weird by the fact that the development is not even half complete.
2) That said, the people that live there absolutely love living there. And, they were so warm and welcoming to the Triathletes that were competing out there who were blocking the streets and otherwise causing a large commotion in their neighborhood. One gal had even set up a hose with a shower head that you could run under during the running leg of the race; really nice people out there.

I think the people who bought homes in New Town are trying to "build the dream", and who wouldn't? Affordable, low/no-maintenance homes, decent schools, parks within walking distance, etc.

ttricamo wrote: 4) All that said, that farmers that live and work the land around New Town absolutely despise its inhabitants and the athletes that come out there to train on their flat, windy roads. I can't tell you how many times I was cussed at or had cars purposely come close to trying to hit me. I saw a couple of farm guys talking in their lane as I rode by. I decided to say, "hello", to them and they promptly told me to, "fu-- off". Kind of a scary deal when you're ten miles out of New Town on farm roads with hostiles around you. Perhaps thats how someone from St. Charles feels when they get off of I-70 north of the Dome?

There's an element of society that doesn't WANT change (good or bad), whether they're from North City, rural St. Charles County, West County or whatever.

justme123 wrote: I think the people who bought homes in New Town are trying to "build the dream", and who wouldn't? Affordable, low/no-maintenance homes, decent schools, parks within walking distance, etc.

Um, aside perhaps from the schools, that sounds a lot like where I live, in Tower Grove South. And it's not just parks that are within walking distance.

RobbyD wrote:
Re New Town...Of families for whom parochial schools are on the table, how many would want that development moved right off Shaw Gardens or near Forest Park...

Again, that development pretty much already does exist by Shaw Gardens and Forest Park. Except instead of "New Town" it's called Shaw, Tower Grove South, Skinker-DeBalivere and the Central West End. New Town = Old Town West.