It's that some of the architecture and the mix of styles not having any relationship to the context of the development. Even a shred of a relationship would add the element of authenticity. The lack of authenticity is why it feels like The Truman Show. Seaside, Florida, however, uses design that reflects the seaside (context). I think New Town would have been better if the designs were all small town and farmhouse vernacular architecture.
Newtown beats suburban tract housing. But the reason if feels "perfect" is because its all new construction. Everything is neat and orderly and just so because its new, even the streets and sidewalk, and all the trees are saplings, and I think its fair to say the target people are those who would normally buy a condo or suburban tract housing in St. Charles County, so it needs to be that way. Those of us who love the city miss the craftsmanship and patina, not to mention diversity, which can not be found here, thus it looks quite sterile or even theme park-like.
I must admit, I like some of the brick structures...they look like they could be infill in Soulard, Lafayette Square or Old North St. Louis. However, to build them in an all new surroundings like Newtown seems rather pointless to me. Why didn't they just do modern urban? Still, I like it better than suburban tract, which undeniably is still quite popular.
I must admit, I like some of the brick structures...they look like they could be infill in Soulard, Lafayette Square or Old North St. Louis. However, to build them in an all new surroundings like Newtown seems rather pointless to me. Why didn't they just do modern urban? Still, I like it better than suburban tract, which undeniably is still quite popular.
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This is probably the future of some suburban development in Franklin County; more congested I-44 with the new three lanes into Pacific.
I'd like to see these projects more concentrated into the core of the city. Not in the city, but closer certainly. I do think that in 20 years this place will look great, and New Town is close enough that it's not a horrible commute (more than I'm willing to suffer, but that's me). But Franklin County? I hope not. Let's focus on developers bringing people back closer to the city, instead of further out because the land in available. Let's get more creative with the land we've already started using.
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trent wrote:I'd like to see these projects more concentrated into the core of the city. Not in the city, but closer certainly. I do think that in 20 years this place will look great, and New Town is close enough that it's not a horrible commute (more than I'm willing to suffer, but that's me). But Franklin County? I hope not. Let's focus on developers bringing people back closer to the city, instead of further out because the land in available. Let's get more creative with the land we've already started using.
If the city and county could get it's collective rears in gear, there are plenty of spots in North city or the near north side that would be perfect for this kind of development. Developing brownfields come with their own set of problems. Some of the more expensive sticky points are the demolition and cleanup costs for these industrial eyesores. I think some of that could be overcome with creative financing from the city/county (like they don't already do that for the stupid mall projects). But I think the biggest problem seems to be the government themselves. I know a couple of small rehabber companies and they are constantly having problems trying to buy distressed properties in the city. The city just doesn't want to sell them. I think there was an article in the Post Dispatch last fall about the city not exactly following it's own rules in regards to a lot of these properties. *sigh*
Anyway, sorry for straying off topic.
jefferson wrote:^ that website didn't pull up but it sounds interesting, I'd like to see some pictures....
Sorry about that, we had to change our web site domain, since we live in New Town and can't use "New Town" or "New Town at St. Charles" in our domain name.
The site has now been moved to:
www.NewUrbanLiving.net
Click on Gallery at the top, there are a few galleries, mostly with pictures of the development.
Hello there, digital!
Thanks for posting that link, Dana.
This may be a silly question, but what's up with the mail kiosk? I've been wondering this since I visited the development a few weeks ago. Is mail in New Town delivered to each home, or only to this centralized place?
This may be a silly question, but what's up with the mail kiosk? I've been wondering this since I visited the development a few weeks ago. Is mail in New Town delivered to each home, or only to this centralized place?
Framer wrote:Thanks for posting that link, Dana.
This may be a silly question, but what's up with the mail kiosk? I've been wondering this since I visited the development a few weeks ago. Is mail in New Town delivered to each home, or only to this centralized place?
At the moment, we have 2 mail kiosks, one is a temporary one while we wait for the permanent one to be finished (it's almost there!).
Mail is delivered to PO Box-type boxes, and not to each house.
The temporary boxes are very small, but the new Mailroom (between the Town Hall and Marsala's Market) is supposed to have boxes that are double the size of the temporary one.
Larger deliveries from FedEx and UPS DO come to the house, however.
^Thanks for the info. Maybe it's a nitpick, but if I lived there, I'd want my mail delivered right to my door.
In some communities, Lake Tahoe, for example, mail isn't delivered to each individual home because of massive winter snowfalls. That's understandable, but what's the excuse in New Town?
In some communities, Lake Tahoe, for example, mail isn't delivered to each individual home because of massive winter snowfalls. That's understandable, but what's the excuse in New Town?
I don't know about New Town. But, in some cases, planned communities have mail kiosks to encourage people to mingle. Residents are forced to leave the house and stroll down the block, run into the neigbhors and chat. That is the official excuse anyway.
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Framer wrote:^Thanks for the info. Maybe it's a nitpick, but if I lived there, I'd want my mail delivered right to my door.
In some communities, Lake Tahoe, for example, mail isn't delivered to each individual home because of massive winter snowfalls. That's understandable, but what's the excuse in New Town?
The USPS doesn't do door-to-door anymore without additional charge. Look at new subdivisions and you'll see group mailboxes near the entrances. Sometimes the developer and then homeowners will pay the extra fee to have mail delivered to the mailboxes by the curb but that doesn't work well with on-street parking and it looks horrible. I don't know that you can get door-to-door for any price these days.
^So that is the reason. Makes sense. I have seen developers market the kiosks as neighborhood gathering points - sly. But, I don't think it such a bad thing.
^ I have heard that too Expat...that it was so neighbors will mingle more. It will be interesting to see if it stays that way. I keep thinking 3-5 years down the road people will get sick of walking to pick up their mail everyday. I suppose they could accommodate door to door delivery with door slots like many city neighborhoods do.
The 'mingling' reason is what we were also told, and so far, yes, we do run into other folks getting their mail, but no one bothers to stop and talk, but we do meet others while out walking.
I didn't know that about the to-door charge for USPS! Interesting! While it would make the delivery more efficient, I'm sure that the number of 'wrong box' deliveries would go up, since they are so close together... but another excuse to go meet your neighbor if you have to go deliver their mail to them.
I didn't know that about the to-door charge for USPS! Interesting! While it would make the delivery more efficient, I'm sure that the number of 'wrong box' deliveries would go up, since they are so close together... but another excuse to go meet your neighbor if you have to go deliver their mail to them.
Huh? New subdivisions don't have US Mail delivered to each home anymore? Yikes! I guess I've got to get out of the city more often.
The RFT has an article about New Town this week. Read it last night and it really creeped me out. It could have just been the writer but it sure seems as if people who move there are more into escape than engagement. Very company town/Stepford Wives kinda vibe.
Matt wrote:The RFT has an article about New Town this week. Read it last night and it really creeped me out. It could have just been the writer but it sure seems as if people who move there are more into escape than engagement. Very company town/Stepford Wives kinda vibe.
Interesting article. I would agree that it might've been the writer or the tone of the article causing your creeped-out'ed-ness.
I really wish New Town all the best - I hope it succeeds. Honestly though, I remain skeptical. Had it been created closer to "the rest of the metro area" (and yeah, I realize there's a whole "build it and they will come" mentality, but still.....) I think I'd be less skeptical. But the whole idea of an un-auto-centric place being built somewhere that absolutely requires a car to get to/from really seems like a bad idea.
Like the town hall that isn't really a town hall because it isn't really a town, just a subdivision in St. Charles. Or, the women who wants to be the first to open a church because, coincidentally, she wants her own church. Or the book store that doesn't really sell any books, evidently because people don't read.
I would fully expect them to have gardens with plastic vegetables or a distant cornfield with fake corn. It's not new urbanism, its insanity.
I would fully expect them to have gardens with plastic vegetables or a distant cornfield with fake corn. It's not new urbanism, its insanity.
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The bookstore does sell books. I've been up there when people are buying books. I've also bought books when there was an author signing that I was interested in. That being said, they have the goofiest setup for checking out. It's like the whole checkout counter was an afterthought. How long was the person that was interviewed working there? Had she been working the counter the whole time? Of course, it could be just like the person that was quoted about the lawn mower rule, his quotes were taken totally out of context. Dunno.Matt wrote:Or the book store that doesn't really sell any books, evidently because people don't read.
Matt wrote:I would fully expect them to have gardens with plastic vegetables or a distant cornfield with fake corn. It's not new urbanism, its insanity.
It's more urbanism than the vinyl clad nightmare most of St. Charles & St. Louis county seems to be in love with. It's all very well and good to want this more towards the urban core, and I really wish that it could have been closer. But apparently, there is also the whole chicken and the egg thing. Can't build without money and the last big attempt with the Gates district fell sharply on its face for the lack of funding or the city hall doing anything at all to help get the project underway. My opinion, YMMV.
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I noticed the rowhouses in the Saturday Folio and remembered that I have not commented on New Town now that I have been to it.
+ It is the first REAL New Urbanist community in MO and has begun the
trend for the future
+ New Urbanism creates community unlike suburbia and New Town has
a large central park with town hall, post office, mail center, plaza and
small shop buildings.
+ Parks are plentiful and adequately placed. I like how a large park is
surrounded by rowhouses and attached townhouses with single family
houses past them. I even saw a sign for an organic garden.
Negatives
-- The place is like a subdivision in its separation from all of St. Charles
and the other residential areas. It has one entrance off a country or
narrow two lane road on the western side. It's a subdivision-city/state.
-- The building exteriors are cheap
-- It sits in a separate school district from the City of St. Charles north
( St. Charles SD) and the city south (Francis Howell) making its
connection to the rest of St. Charles loose like a subdivision far out in
the fields which it feels like
-- It is designed to a T and feels fake, and others are shocked after they
remark how it reminds them of the Truman Show and of course it is
the same movement and company, DPZ. (However, the work and
movement is changing suburban trends).
In sum
I liked it somewhat except the distance. It needs time. The suburban
movement and experiment has proved what it is in the long run and this new movement is still young regardless of trailblazers of Seaside and the Kenlands or Windsor.
EDIT> Exteriors are not cheap but Hardiplank a siding more costly and longer lasting than vinly or wood but not as costly as brick or stone> sorry my unfamiliarity with siding technology<
+ It is the first REAL New Urbanist community in MO and has begun the
trend for the future
+ New Urbanism creates community unlike suburbia and New Town has
a large central park with town hall, post office, mail center, plaza and
small shop buildings.
+ Parks are plentiful and adequately placed. I like how a large park is
surrounded by rowhouses and attached townhouses with single family
houses past them. I even saw a sign for an organic garden.
Negatives
-- The place is like a subdivision in its separation from all of St. Charles
and the other residential areas. It has one entrance off a country or
narrow two lane road on the western side. It's a subdivision-city/state.
-- The building exteriors are cheap
-- It sits in a separate school district from the City of St. Charles north
( St. Charles SD) and the city south (Francis Howell) making its
connection to the rest of St. Charles loose like a subdivision far out in
the fields which it feels like
-- It is designed to a T and feels fake, and others are shocked after they
remark how it reminds them of the Truman Show and of course it is
the same movement and company, DPZ. (However, the work and
movement is changing suburban trends).
In sum
I liked it somewhat except the distance. It needs time. The suburban
movement and experiment has proved what it is in the long run and this new movement is still young regardless of trailblazers of Seaside and the Kenlands or Windsor.
EDIT> Exteriors are not cheap but Hardiplank a siding more costly and longer lasting than vinly or wood but not as costly as brick or stone> sorry my unfamiliarity with siding technology<
Revitalizing this topic a little!
New Town had a wonderful 4th of July, complete with parade, games for the kids, and a very nice fireworks show.
The marching bad was from Ontario, and was a touring band, and very good (IMHO).
We also had our pizza parlor open up here. They deliver to New Town only, but you can walk in and pick up a pie or a slice. They have a couple of "specialty" pizzas, like cheeseburger. You can also make your own from their selected toppings. Their crust is hand-tossed, and pretty tasty. I didn't enjoy the toppings as much as I'd hoped (but I'm picky!).
I'd like to comment on a few things that SMSPlanstu said.
On the Organic Farm - I've heard that it will be the kind where people can rent out plots, where they can garden. I am hoping that there will be someone else that is taking care of a larger portion of it, to stock a fruit/veggie stand - but that's yet to be seen.
Yes, it looks pre-fabbed, simply because it is. As you said, with time, it will start looking more tied in. Construction still abounds, and will continue to be a part of the landscape for some time.
On entrances - I do believe that there will be a second "back" entrance when the subdivision grows back far enough. There will also be 2 through-streets into Charlestowne. In 2007 or 2008, the city with (thankfully!) be widening Elm and New Town into 4 lanes.
I really don't see that the exteriors are 'cheap'. I'm not sure if you meant that the looked cheap, or are cheap. From the price tag, they certainly aren't inexpensive. They are using brick, Certainteed Cement fiberboard siding, Azec trim, Kolbe and Kolbe windows, etc. Some people have chosen to have gas lighting installed on their front porch. Community features seem to be well-constructed. Playground equipment is wooden or thick fiberglass type material. Benches are wooden or iron (painted steel, maybe?).
I've heard positives and negatives about the Orchard Farm School District, but mainly positive things. It is a small SD now, but when the other, neighboring, subdivisions go in and give it a boost, it will grow.
At the moment, yes, it looks like a T. It is only a partial plan, and it will expand as the phases are completed. On DPZ's web site, there is an overview image that gives you the full picture. The roads still seem awkward, but it will eventually be more than a simple T formation.
Distance from things is all in perspective
It takes me 20 minutes to get to work, since I take 370. My husband's commute is more like 35-40 minutes, since he has to fight 94. If you are coming from highway 40, there is no real easy way to get here, but from the city, you can easily take 70 or 270 out to 370 or 94. It is convenient for me, but I can see how others would be hard-pressed to describe an easy way to get there!
Anyway, thanks for the mini-review. We do have several things lined up, grand openings, a pool going in (soon!!), a german pub and volleyball courts in the works. We have one firepit open, and the bocce ball and croquet/shuffleboard area is finished, just waiting for the sod to settle.
If anyone would like to see pictures of the parade, I have some up on our web site, as do some other people:
http://www.newurbanliving.net/index.php ... _itemId=44 (my gallery)
http://www.newurbanliving.net/index.php?name=gallery2 (main gallery)
New Town had a wonderful 4th of July, complete with parade, games for the kids, and a very nice fireworks show.
The marching bad was from Ontario, and was a touring band, and very good (IMHO).
We also had our pizza parlor open up here. They deliver to New Town only, but you can walk in and pick up a pie or a slice. They have a couple of "specialty" pizzas, like cheeseburger. You can also make your own from their selected toppings. Their crust is hand-tossed, and pretty tasty. I didn't enjoy the toppings as much as I'd hoped (but I'm picky!).
I'd like to comment on a few things that SMSPlanstu said.
On the Organic Farm - I've heard that it will be the kind where people can rent out plots, where they can garden. I am hoping that there will be someone else that is taking care of a larger portion of it, to stock a fruit/veggie stand - but that's yet to be seen.
Yes, it looks pre-fabbed, simply because it is. As you said, with time, it will start looking more tied in. Construction still abounds, and will continue to be a part of the landscape for some time.
On entrances - I do believe that there will be a second "back" entrance when the subdivision grows back far enough. There will also be 2 through-streets into Charlestowne. In 2007 or 2008, the city with (thankfully!) be widening Elm and New Town into 4 lanes.
I really don't see that the exteriors are 'cheap'. I'm not sure if you meant that the looked cheap, or are cheap. From the price tag, they certainly aren't inexpensive. They are using brick, Certainteed Cement fiberboard siding, Azec trim, Kolbe and Kolbe windows, etc. Some people have chosen to have gas lighting installed on their front porch. Community features seem to be well-constructed. Playground equipment is wooden or thick fiberglass type material. Benches are wooden or iron (painted steel, maybe?).
I've heard positives and negatives about the Orchard Farm School District, but mainly positive things. It is a small SD now, but when the other, neighboring, subdivisions go in and give it a boost, it will grow.
At the moment, yes, it looks like a T. It is only a partial plan, and it will expand as the phases are completed. On DPZ's web site, there is an overview image that gives you the full picture. The roads still seem awkward, but it will eventually be more than a simple T formation.
Distance from things is all in perspective
It takes me 20 minutes to get to work, since I take 370. My husband's commute is more like 35-40 minutes, since he has to fight 94. If you are coming from highway 40, there is no real easy way to get here, but from the city, you can easily take 70 or 270 out to 370 or 94. It is convenient for me, but I can see how others would be hard-pressed to describe an easy way to get there!Anyway, thanks for the mini-review. We do have several things lined up, grand openings, a pool going in (soon!!), a german pub and volleyball courts in the works. We have one firepit open, and the bocce ball and croquet/shuffleboard area is finished, just waiting for the sod to settle.
If anyone would like to see pictures of the parade, I have some up on our web site, as do some other people:
http://www.newurbanliving.net/index.php ... _itemId=44 (my gallery)
http://www.newurbanliving.net/index.php?name=gallery2 (main gallery)
Thanks for posting the site plan, Dana. Very interesting. I need help, though: Where is the main entrance? Nothing's labeled on the plan. I'm completely dissoriented.