I guess there is just no way to avoid them , but can't they at least plant some type of evergreen vines along these things? Maybe there are no native evergreen ivy species? Is it some kind of maintenance concern?
It'd take a couple of years, but a sound wall covered with English Ivy would look a hell of a lot better than the alternative.
Well MODOT damn well better plant something, because just leaving the no-mans-land between the highways and sound walls open for native grasses looks like crap.
JMedwick wrote:Well MODOT damn well better plant something, because just leaving the no-mans-land between the highways and sound walls open for native grasses looks like crap.
I agree. At this point I'm not sure I care too much about what gets planted as long as the concrete canyon effect is minimized. Interstates 55 and 270 in South County look ridiculous with all of those sound walls.
Not surprisingly, I saw a guy on the news the other night talking about how nice the new sound walls along 64 looked. Typical West Countian, I suppose.
JMedwick wrote:Well MODOT damn well better plant something, because just leaving the no-mans-land between the highways and sound walls open for native grasses looks like crap.
I agree. At this point I'm not sure I care too much about what gets planted as long as the concrete canyon effect is minimized. Interstates 55 and 270 in South County look ridiculous with all of those sound walls.
Not surprisingly, I saw a guy on the news the other night talking about how nice the new sound walls along 64 looked. Typical West Countian, I suppose.
I drove the new part last night and was shocked by how much of a canyon it feels. Plus they're not done putting the walls up so I'm sure it will feel even worse when done. It reminded me of the highway chase scene from the second "Matrix" movie.
It's a bummer they couldn't have gone with the combination walls (wood, concrete, steel) like they use in Minneapolis/St. Paul.
I'll reserve final judgment until I take a cruise down the new stretch of road, but I'll miss the old highway's motorway look and all of the greenery no matter what.
And it won't take much to look 100x better than the hideous walls in South County. The worst in the metro area, though, are the ghastly metal sound walls along I-255 in East St. Louis. I think they may have been replaced recently, though, or at least one can hope they've been replaced by now.
From what I saw, it's nice and smooth...but it JUST looks like ANY OTHER HIGHWAY! It's rather sterile looking compared to what used to be there! Then just beyond Spoede Road between it and I-270 heading east, I thought I was rolling on and asphalt stretch after seeing concrete coming down I-64 off 270 and then going back to concrete on the new I-64! Kinda' tacky if I'm right! :idea: If you're GONNA' FIX it...
So while it loses character, I have to say that it's still nice to have a brand-new highway! AND IT IS SO NICE BEING ABLE TO GO FROM I-64 TO NORTHBOUND I-170 WITHOUT HAVING TO BOTHER WITH BRENTWOOD! THAT should help alleviate some traffic problems in that area!
I also can't wait to see what the Hanley bridge closure (and the completed construction) will do for traffic since it looks like cars should be able to flow smoothly from Hanley to Eager! Hopefully, it will no longer be a CLUSTER@#$%!!!!
Who gives a rat's ass what it looks like. It's an interstate. They all look like crap becuase you're intended to speed past them at 70 mph. It's not like a real building you walk past at 3mph.
If you remember, the original design had more aesthetics, with designs cut into the sound walls and so forth. But when the budget crunch came and something had to be cut in order for the highway to be built, that's what went. The design they're building is much different from the original proposal from about 5 years ago. They also got rid of the SPUIs at Brentwood, Hanley and Big Bend. And that's why the signs on the bridges are panels hanging off the bridge rather than being etched into the concrete like the Compton Avenue bridge.
throatybeard wrote:Who gives a rat's ass what it looks like. It's an interstate. They all look like crap becuase you're intended to speed past them at 70 mph. It's not like a real building you walk past at 3mph.
Because for millions of visitors this is all they will see of our fine city. Like it or not, our airport and interstates provide our "curb appeal."
jonkleinow wrote:If you remember, the original design had more aesthetics, with designs cut into the sound walls and so forth. But when the budget crunch came and something had to be cut in order for the highway to be built, that's what went. The design they're building is much different from the original proposal from about 5 years ago. They also got rid of the SPUIs at Brentwood, Hanley and Big Bend. And that's why the signs on the bridges are panels hanging off the bridge rather than being etched into the concrete like the Compton Avenue bridge.
The loss of those single point interchanges are the biggest thing that irks me about this project. At least Oakland will still have one.
Maybe if Richmond Heights hadn't been such divas and demanded useless overpasses at Boland and Highland Terrace, there would have been money for SPUIs at the real traffic points.
I don't understand everyone's infatuation with SPUI's. They are useful at high traffic intersections (i.e. Olive/270, Lindbergh, Kingshighway) but they are not a one-size fits all solution. They're expensive to build and really aren't necessary when a diamond interchange would work just as well. A SPUI at Big Bend would have been a waste.
IIRC the EIS had two options for the I-170 interchange area. One had a double decked 64, the other did not. Obviously they chose the cheaper version that required fewer bridges.
Also, don't blame Richmond Heights for cost increases. The Boland and Highland Terrace bridges costed way less than the wasted interchange at Bellevue. The City fought long and hard against that half interchange, but St. Mary's insisted on it. A lot of buildings had to be torn down so that Big Bend and Bellevue on/off ramps wouldn't conflict. Studies showed that the time savings for an ambulance using Bellvue instead of Big Bend to get to the hospital was minimal. Plus, St. Mary's isn't even a trauma center. Major emergencies end up going to BJC anyway.
The EIS for the Brentwood/I-170/Hanley section always seemed more of MoDOT wishlist than anything else. i.e. If we had the money, this is what we would build (kinda like what happened with the Mississippi River Bridge project). SPUIs at Brentwood and Hanley would have required grade separating the outer roadway at Brentwood and may have been a little overkill.
I am a little worried that the interchanges at Brentwood and Hanley won't be able to handle all the traffic that will be thrown at them, but sometimes there's only so much you can do. I have wondered for some time though if contraflow left interchanges would have been an improvement over standard diamond interchanges.
The Bellevue interchange is idiotic. St. Mary's claims that ambulances need to be able to get to and from calls as quickly as possible. Okay, I'll give them the eastbound exit. Ambulances, however, do not originate from the hospitals meaning that the westbound entrance is there only for the personal benefit of St. Mary's employees at the expense of Richmond Heights residents evicted from their homes to accomodate the increased right-of-way.
Mill204 wrote:The EIS for the Brentwood/I-170/Hanley section always seemed more of MoDOT wishlist than anything else. i.e. If we had the money, this is what we would build (kinda like what happened with the Mississippi River Bridge project). SPUIs at Brentwood and Hanley would have required grade separating the outer roadway at Brentwood and may have been a little overkill.
I am a little worried that the interchanges at Brentwood and Hanley won't be able to handle all the traffic that will be thrown at them, but sometimes there's only so much you can do. I have wondered for some time though if contraflow left interchanges would have been an improvement over standard diamond interchanges.
The Bellevue interchange is idiotic. St. Mary's claims that ambulances need to be able to get to and from calls as quickly as possible. Okay, I'll give them the eastbound exit. Ambulances, however, do not originate from the hospitals meaning that the westbound entrance is there only for the personal benefit of St. Mary's employees at the expense of Richmond Heights residents evicted from their homes to accomodate the increased right-of-way.
I think St. Mary's wanted the Bellevue interchange so their doctors could get to/from the mansions in Ladue and Town&Country. Notice how the ramps only handle traffic to/from the west? (I'm joking...kind of.)
I now take 40 to west to work each morning. Traffic is a non issue as sometimes I'm the only car headed west that I can see. Kinda nice haveing a half billion highway built just for me! Thanks MODOT and merry Xmas to me!
Warning... Non Urban Comment Below... Read at your own risk!
This new stretch of Highway is wonderful in that it makes getting just about ANYWHERE is the StL in 15-20 minutes that much easier. You wonder why it's difficult to persuade people to take PT, because it's simply too damn convenient to drive a vehicle everywhere in this town. We are cursed by our own efficiency.
I haven't driven it yet, I can only comment on what the new closure has done for traffic. I live in Dogtown as you probably guessed, and it's not been fun. Clayton Rd east of Skinker is constantly backed up, Oakland Ave heading east is packed with cars heading to Kingshighway, and all of the stop signs are still up. I don't know if they could safely remove any of the stop signs, but man, it sure would be nice. Some temporary traffic signals maybe? I'm assuming the ridiculous traffic on Manchester these past couple of days are also because of the 64 "flip." It's a nightmare.
Last night was my first drive to school (and my last for awhile since my semester is over) following the 64/40 switchover. Since I approach Washington University from the good ol' Southside, I got off I-44 at Southwest Avenue. Instead of turning at McCausland Avenue, I went straight on Southwest, left on Manchester, right on Big Bend, and right on Forsyth Boulevard to get to school.
I figured if I would overshoot my target just to the west I could approach school from the east and encounter less traffic. That strategy worked very well- the only evidence of the shutdown I encountered was a longer light at Clayton and Big Bend roads. Westbound traffic on east-west routes, even Forsyth, was hellacrazy.
I took Forest Park Avenue home just to get an idea of traffic volume, and while there were more cars than usual on that stretch at 8:30 on a weeknight, it wasn't as busy then as one might expect. I can see how jammed it and other east-west arteries like Clayton and Oakland must get at rush hour...so thankfully I'm in the area just for school twice a week and not for my work commute which is relatively short and easy.
yeah I really hope that once people get some alternate routes/alternate work schedules worked out that roads like Manchester, Forest Park, and Clayton settle down a bit. Right now it appears Dogtown, Maplewood, Richmond Heights will be a real pain to travel through.
Everyone at my office in Creve Coeur thinks I must have a nightmare commute since I live in the city, but the good thing about Soulard is proximity to the highways *not* shut down. I-70 to I-170 has been a little busier (and this morning a bus crash on eastbound 70 didn't help) but overall I can't complain
(as I look around my cubicle for wood to knock on!)
I don't live far from you Juice and I haven't really noticed a difference that I couldn't get around. Good thing is that google maps on my iphone is already updated with alternate routes.... something tells me that in a few days, this traffic will be a thing of the past.
, but can't they at least plant some type of evergreen vines along these things? Maybe there are no native evergreen ivy species? Is it some kind of maintenance concern?
