New I-64 Completed/Opened 12/07/2009

threeonefour · PostNov 20, 2008#4262008-11-20T17:20+00:00

After all of the scuttlebutt I've heard about this project, I actually expected the road to reopen sooner than December 15.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's wonderful to see the contractors finish ahead of schedule, but it's still a couple of weeks later than the dates I've heard people throwing around before the announcement was made last Friday.

I'm not going to panic even though the closure of the second half will have at least some impact on my commute to school in the evening, but I cannot help but feel the city is not as well prepared for the congestion that will result from the highway closing as the county and the affected municipalities were when the western half of 64/40 was closed. This is the same city streets department that's talked about synchronizing traffic signals for years without much progress to speak of, so why would I expect them to have their sh*t together now?

framer · PostNov 21, 2008#4272008-11-21T05:24+00:00

^Yeah, but there's a lot more alternate routes in the City. People will spread out, find their favorites, and before we know it, it will all be over.

progress · PostNov 21, 2008#4282008-11-21T16:04+00:00

^ THAT'S a GOOD, POSITIVE way to look at the situation because FRANKLY I'm in a PANIC over how I'm going to get AROUND that stretch! :smt095

moorlander · PostNov 21, 2008#4292008-11-21T16:16+00:00

gosh, with 44 so close, after about a week, you'll forget the hiway is even closed. Just goes to show that we likely could have done without a new 40.

threeonefour · PostNov 21, 2008#4302008-11-21T17:02+00:00

Good point- I-44 is even more of a practical detour for city residents than it was for those in West County that had to use it as an alternate route to I-64/US Highway 40. I use it twice a week during rush hour to get to school in the evening, and while I've noticed a jump in traffic, it's no big deal and it's still easy to get around. My worries revolve mostly around the timing of traffic signals, something the city may never master.

One more random and rambling thought on the matter...

I shudder to think of what it would've done to parts of Shrewsbury, Webster Groves, and Maplewood, but I wonder how much different things would be if Interstate 44, instead of taking its route into the city severing The Hill and Shaw, had been routed through those suburbs to connect with I-170? Although I-44 will cushion the blow of a closed I-64, I've always wondered why St. Louis really needed two major east-west interstates so close together, and I've always lamented the interruption of the urban fabric that I-44 created (although I'd say the same about all of the interstates that cut through the city).

(I know that doesn't have much to do with the current situation, but a city-loving geek like me occasionally envisions what St. Louis and other American cities would look like if we had the foresight NOT to bisect our urban areas with interstates like most European and some Canadian major cities.)

jlblues · PostNov 21, 2008#4312008-11-21T20:54+00:00

Framer wrote:^Yeah, but there's a lot more alternate routes in the City. People will spread out, find their favorites, and before we know it, it will all be over.

Yeah, it'll all be over all right. You know that when I'm driving in from Chesterwood, I'll inevitably get lost in the city without 4 lanes of highway and giant green signs to follow. And then, it's only a matter of time before I get carjacked, mugged, raped, beaten, shot, stabbed, set on fire, and then ::shudder::, be forced to watch The View.

progress · PostNov 24, 2008#4322008-11-24T15:37+00:00

ThreeOneFour wrote:Good point- I-44 is even more of a practical detour for city residents than it was for those in West County that had to use it as an alternate route to I-64/US Highway 40. I use it twice a week during rush hour to get to school in the evening, and while I've noticed a jump in traffic, it's no big deal and it's still easy to get around. My worries revolve mostly around the timing of traffic signals, something the city may never master.

One more random and rambling thought on the matter...

I shudder to think of what it would've done to parts of Shrewsbury, Webster Groves, and Maplewood, but I wonder how much different things would be if Interstate 44, instead of taking its route into the city severing The Hill and Shaw, had been routed through those suburbs to connect with I-170? Although I-44 will cushion the blow of a closed I-64, I've always wondered why St. Louis really needed two major east-west interstates so close together, and I've always lamented the interruption of the urban fabric that I-44 created (although I'd say the same about all of the interstates that cut through the city).

(I know that doesn't have much to do with the current situation, but a city-loving geek like me occasionally envisions what St. Louis and other American cities would look like if we had the foresight NOT to bisect our urban areas with interstates like most European and some Canadian major cities.)

It'll be GREAT for people who live CLOSE to it, but I currently use I-170 south to I-64 east! And I'm pretty sure that all the routes headed to and from I-44 will be jammed up with traffic!

moorlander · PostNov 24, 2008#4332008-11-24T16:27+00:00

^ you will have to experiment and see what's quickest...

170 - 70 east

FP parkway

Olive

Page

etc etc

dredger · PostNov 24, 2008#4342008-11-24T23:31+00:00

I really don't think going East/West will be an issue. The reality is that most of us live within a short distance of I-70, Olive, Page, FP, I-44. If anything, I think it will be pain for some people who make use of Hanely and Big Bend bridges on a daily basis.

juiceinkirkwood · PostDec 02, 2008#4352008-12-02T15:43+00:00

Here's some information on some ceremonies for the new I-64 project, including a 5k run, bike ride, etc.

http://www.thenewi64.org/Newsroom.do

On another note, I will probably take Skinker -> Olive as I work at CityPlace on Olive Blvd in Creve Coeur. I drove 44->270 the other day and just thought it seemed like forever before I reached my destination. Think I'd rather just take some regular streets than the highway.

jlblues · PostDec 02, 2008#4362008-12-02T20:49+00:00

JuiceInDogtown wrote:On another note, I will probably take Skinker -> Olive as I work at CityPlace on Olive Blvd in Creve Coeur.

Ewww, that used to be my commute in a previous life. It wasn't fun, and there is a whole lot more traffic on those streets then there was then.

brickandmortar · PostDec 12, 2008#4372008-12-12T20:25+00:00

Just in case nobody knows, but they were planning on shutting down I-64 Sunday afternoon. Well all that changed I guess because of the impending rain. I for one don't need to make a farewell cruise down 40.

Highway 40 shutdown moved up to Sat.

St. Louis Business Journal

Due to forecasts for rainy weather, the closure of the eastern half of Highway 40 for reconstruction has been moved up to 7 a.m. Saturday instead of Monday.

The western half of Highway 40 won't open until Sunday night or Monday morning, leaving an entire west-east stretch closed over the weekend, said Andrew Gates, a spokesman for the Missouri Department of Transportation said Friday.

"We are expecting rain but they have to do striping and they need dry pavement to do that," he said.

Link[/quote]

threeonefour · PostDec 14, 2008#4382008-12-14T05:50+00:00

I'm going to miss the leisurely drives down Forest Park Avenue to get to and from class in the evenings. When I lived out west many years ago I lost my favorite thoroughfare for Metrolink construction. I'll probably avoid it now, at least during rush hour, in favor of other routes to and from WashU.

And after reading the Post-Dispatch and listening to KTVI dwell on the "Highway 40 Flip", whatever the hell that is, I guess we can forget about any of our local media actually sticking with conventional wisdom and finally identifying the road by its primary designation (Interstate 64) like people in just about any other city in the world do whenever a highway has more than one designation.

I'll drive the new section whenever I get around to it. I'm sure I'll appreciate the lack of standing water in a downpour and I won't miss the ramps that were more appropriate for horse-drawn carriages than modern automobiles, but I'm not looking forward to seeing that stretch filled with unsightly sound walls or sharing the road with large trucks, something that wasn't an issue when there were so many bridges with low clearance back in the days of the old highway.

debaliviere · PostDec 15, 2008#4392008-12-15T17:49+00:00

I ran in the 5k yesterday morning and am kind of wondering why this project was so expensive/time consuming.

jmedwick · PostDec 15, 2008#4402008-12-15T18:49+00:00

^Two guesses:

1. The miles and miles of sound walls along the highway.

2. The money wasted on half-assed design features, like the chevrons on the Lindbergh bridge. Either take the time to do quality decorative design for the highway or build it as generic as possible.

dweebe · PostDec 15, 2008#4412008-12-15T19:14+00:00

DeBaliviere wrote:I ran in the 5k yesterday morning and am kind of wondering why this project was so expensive/time consuming.

One year to completely tear down and rebuild a number of bridges and about 4 or 5 miles of roadway? How long do you think it should have taken: just a few weeks?

Let's not forget they had to take out a lot of roadway that was 50+ years old and desperately needed to be replaced. They needed to wipe the slate clean because simple patch and repaving jobs would have gotten more expensive and time-consuming.

Plus a number of the overpasses and bridges are in really bad shape. Do you propose we just do like Minnesota and wait until stuff starts falling down?

shadrach · PostDec 15, 2008#4422008-12-15T19:18+00:00

I'm shocked

how quick that stretch was rebuilt.

There is an interchange (I-85/SR 316) here in ATL that I swear they have been working on for 5+ years.

Bart Harley Jarvis · PostDec 15, 2008#4432008-12-15T21:46+00:00

shadrach wrote:I'm shocked how quick that stretch was rebuilt.

There is an interchange (I-85/SR 316) here in ATL that I swear they have been working on for 5+ years.

I'm guessing they weren't able to shut down the entire interchange like we were fortunate enough to have happen here, no thanks to West County politicians.

jlblues · PostDec 16, 2008#4442008-12-16T01:32+00:00

Re: Sound Walls.

I guess there is just no way to avoid them

, but can't they at least plant some type of evergreen vines along these things? Maybe there are no native evergreen ivy species? Is it some kind of maintenance concern?

It'd take a couple of years, but a sound wall covered with English Ivy would look a hell of a lot better than the alternative.

MattnSTL · PostDec 16, 2008#4452008-12-16T01:58+00:00

^How about some kudzoo. Grows fast and completely covers up anything around it. No need to wait for years for your ivy.

tb1000 · PostDec 16, 2008#4462008-12-16T02:26+00:00

St. Louis did the right thing by shutting it completely down. The past year has gone by very fast and it's far more efficient to build it this way. There are several things to consider:

1. St. Louis is blessed with two other interstates that run parallel to I-64 (44 and 70)

2. Shutting it down for a year prevents cost overruns. If they spread the construction out over 4 years then the cost of materials most likely would increase significantly and labor as well.

3. It is far more easier to get around St. Louis when you know the highway will be shut down, versus having two lanes shut down at a time and dealing with unexpected backups. Trust me, driving in Atlanta has shown me that the way St. Louis did it is the proper way. There are two lanes that get shut down on 85 in Atlanta but the timing seems unexpected. You never know when you'll face a traffic jam (one that is worse than typical Atlanta traffic)

Glad to see that the first phase was done successfully and I hope the second phase gets done even faster.

jlblues · PostDec 16, 2008#4472008-12-16T03:19+00:00

MattnSTL wrote:^How about some kudzoo. Grows fast and completely covers up anything around it. No need to wait for years for your ivy.

Heh, yeah we don't want to repeat that mistake. That's exactly why I asked about native vines. I know English Ivy isn't native, but I don't think it would exactly qualify as "invasive", whereas kudzu clearly does.

Don't we have any botanists on here? Surely one of the thousands of people that maintain the St. Louis University lawnscape reads this forum?

TB1000 wrote:If they spread the construction out over 4 years then the cost of materials most likely would increase significantly and labor as well.

Well, that would have been a reasonable prediction a year ago, I'm not so sure about that now.

Edit: Nevermind, English Ivy is considered invasive too. On the plus side for kudzu; it is supposedly a great hangover remedy, so all the West Countians heading home from the bars could just pull over and grab a handful of kudzu leaves.

MattnSTL · PostDec 16, 2008#4482008-12-16T03:31+00:00

jlblues wrote:
MattnSTL wrote:Don't we have any botanists on here? Surely one of the thousands of people that maintain the St. Louis University lawnscape reads this forum?

In that case, just plant grass

jcity · PostDec 16, 2008#4492008-12-16T05:30+00:00

Delmar could be a better reliever to Forest Park Parkway between Kingshighway and Skinker.

why in the FFFFFFFFF do Belt and Clara STILL need lights on Delmar between DeBaliviere and Union?! The former St. Lukes is closed.. how many cars even use these streets? I think flashing yellow with red lights for southbound onto Delmar would work. it's nearly impossible to hit these lights correctly. Who is in charge? the county was able to synch the lights on Manchester..hello CITY!?!?! duuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

threeonefour · PostDec 16, 2008#4502008-12-16T05:55+00:00

^ I agree, I don't understand why there are signals on Belt and Clara avenues at their intersections with Delmar Boulevard.

It's further proof of something I've been predicting ever since it became clear that the first phase was going to work out far better than expected: I knew the city wouldn't adequately prepare for the additional crush of traffic by signal reduction and/or synchronization. I understand the city has many more challenges since there are more intersections along the alternate routes for this portion of the 64/40 reconstruction project, but I think more could've been done.

That said, I think Delmar has limited potential as an alternate route because of the (desirable) congestion in The Loop on both sides of the city limits. Forest Park Avenue is already strained, but it's pretty clear that Delmar near and through The Loop cannot handle too many additional vehicles especially during peak times.

New I-64 Completed/Opened 12/07/2009

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