urbanSTL

It's cheating because the city limits are what they are. Chicago's city population doesn't include all of Cook County; Cleveland's numbers don't include all of Cuyahoga County; Detroit's doesn't include Wayne County in its entirety, Pittsburgh's city numbers don't include all of Allegheny County; Baltimore City is completely separate from Baltimore County, etc. etc.



The city's boundaries are what they are, for better or worse. St. Louis has very small city limits. It's not fair to claim it's the 12th biggest city unless the above-mentioned cities (and many others) are allowed to include their principle surrounding counties as well.

That's just ridiculous. When people talk about how big a city is, common usage is to refer to the metro area. When you say Dallas/Ft. Worth is the fifth largest city in the country, you aren't just referring to Dallas and Ft. Worth. You are including Arlington, Plano, Irving, etc. When you talk about how big Washington D.C. is, people don't mean just the distric of columbia, they are also including VA and MD counties.



If they had said St. Louis was the 42nd (or whatever) largest city, basing it only on the 350k in the city limits, THAT would have been misleading because the average viewer would expect them to be referring to the metro area.

Hell, "12th largest city" sounded good, although it makes me question the accuracy of the facts reported elsewhere in their newscast. They overused the word "heartland" IMO.



Otherwise, downtown looked great. Although the view from 1010 Market Street reminded me of how much I hate the empty blocks of the Gateway Mall.

DeBaliviere wrote:They overused the word "heartland" IMO.

Jesus, yes. That was getting on my nerves. Apparently everything west of the Hudson River and east of Sacramento is the Heartland, because I've heard it used just about everywhere. And when I lived in Cape Girardeau, it was even worse, because the local CBS affiliate airs what they call 'Heartland News'. It features- you guessed it- Heartland Sports, the Heartland Storm Team, and Heartland Health. At least Brian Williams didn't go that far overboard.

Otherwise, downtown looked great. Although the view from 1010 Market Street reminded me of how much I hate the empty blocks of the Gateway Mall.

Me too. It's almost as exciting as Ballpark Village.



Back to the debate about our population ranking: Saint Louis used to rank higher among metro areas before the Census Bureau began using CMSAs (consolidated metropolitan statistical areas) in overall MSA rankings. I think as recently as the early 1990s we were 14th on the list. For example, metro STL is larger than metro Cleveland, but not the Cleveland-Akron-Canton CMSA. And it's larger than Greater Baltimore on its own, but not the Washington-B'more CMSA.



Then, you just eliminate those places whose city status is somewhat debatable, like Phoenix and San Jose, and suddenly you have a case for 12th place.

There's something about the word "Heartland" that sounds very condescending to me when used in the media like it was last night. To me, the implication is "hicks and rubes," but maybe I'm being overly sensitive.

JivecitySTL wrote: I was sitting in a waiting room at the car repair shop a couple of weeks ago and there goes Channel 5 on the TV, with it's TOP STORY about the freaking baby elephant at the zoo. It's not like there's a MAJOR WAR HAPPENING in the Middle East or anything!. Who produces this crap?

Huh? You're upset b/c they featured the birth of an elephant as the top story? The local news focuses on local stories usually not national ones (ie the war). This is a very special event for all that appreciate and love the zoo here in STL. This is Raja's first offspring (in case you didn't know Raja was the first elephant born in the STL zoo) and a huge event for our zoo! The STL zoo is one of the few national draws for the St. Louis area and year after year it is one of the top zoos b/c of the amenities and exhibits and price. I think it was very appropriate to feature the elephant as the top story and actually made me not cringe with the top story being a murder or shooting in North STL. As far as channel 5 goes I agree they suck but geez I think everyone else made that their top story as well.

DeBaliviere wrote:There's something about the word "Heartland" that sounds very condescending to me when used in the media like it was last night. To me, the implication is "hicks and rubes," but maybe I'm being overly sensitive.

Since moving to the city I've developed the same aversion to the terms "ghetto" and "inner city".

I think the 12th largest city ranking was great. What's the point in this debate? Are there any StL boosters out there? Do you think that Indianapolis shies away from their relatively high city ranking because when metro areas are considered they move dozens of spots down the line?



On another note (and what really sent me off on this): I was recently in Vancouver, BC and everywhere I looked Stanley Park was touted as the largest urban park in North America. Stanley Park = ~1,000 acres. Forest Park = ~1,400 acres. Stanley Park was also mentioned in my guide book as the largest urban park in North America - in the same guide book series, Forest Park is called "one of the largest urban parks in the U.S." There are large park areas near cities in North America, but I would argue that none of them are truly urban parks. FP is very much in the middle of our great city!!!!



So why not be happy with an overstatement about StL?!?! Good for us!! IMHO StL doesn't do enough of this - there's no honesty (and never has been) in civic boosterism!

^ Right on

Just Google "largest urban park" and see what comes up. There's a whole lot of conflicting info. I think our is more subjectively "urban" whereas many just take into account the park being within city limits, whereby we are at a big disadvantage.



Case in point.



The Largest U.S. City Parks



Rank Park Name City Acres

1 Franklin Mountain State Park El Paso, Tex. 24,000

2 South Mountain Preserve Phoenix, Ariz. 16,283

3 Cullen Park Houston, Tex. 11,321

4 Lake Stanley Draper Park Okla. City, Okla. 9,090

5 North Mountain Preserve Phoenix, Ariz. 7,500

6 Mission Trails Park San Diego, Calif. 5,700

7 Forest Park Portland, Ore. 4,836

8 Mission Bay Park San Diego, Calif. 4,600

9 Mountain Creek Lake Park Dallas, Tex. 4,500

10 Lake Hefner Park Oklahoma City, Okla. 4,440

11 False Cape State Park Virginia Beach, Va. 4,321

12 Eagle Creek Park Indianapolis, Ind. 4,279

13 Griffith Park Los Angeles, Calif. 4,171

14 Fairmount Park-Wissahickon Philadelphia, Pa. 4,167

15 Walter Long Park Austin, Tex. 3,802

16 Bidwell Park Chico, Calif. 3,670

17 Ft. Worth Nat. Ctr/Wildlife Ref. Fort Worth, Tex. 3,331

18 Lake Overholser Park Oklahoma City, Okla. 3,225

19 Trinity River Park Dallas, Tex. 3,173

20 Mohawk Park And Golf Course Tulsa, Okla. 2,820

21 Pelham Bay Park New York, N.Y. 2,766

22 Warner Parks Nashville, Tenn. 2,684

23 Los Penasquitos Canyon Pres San Diego, Calif. 2,572

24 San Pasqual Open Space San Diego, Calif. 2,341

25 Steele Creek Park Bristol, Tenn. 2,214

26 Sepulveda Basin Rec. Area Los Angeles, Calif. 2,031

27 Floyd Lamb State Park Las Vegas, Nev. 2,027

28 Rock Creek Park/Potomac Pk Washington, D.C. 1,949

29 White Rock Lake Park Dallas, Tex. 1,873

30 Greenbelt Park New York, N.Y. 1,778

31 Barton Creek Austin, Tex. 1,771

32 Swope Park Kansas City, Mo. 1,769

33 Ft. Harrison State Park Indianapolis, Ind. 1,640

34 Pennypack Park Philadelphia, Pa. 1,618

35 Burns Park North Little Rock, Ark 1,575

36 Beaman Park Nashville, Tenn. 1,500

37 Memorial Park Houston, Tex. 1,498

38 Mt. Airy Forest Cincinnati, Ohio 1,471

39 Hansen Dam Rec. Center Los Angeles, Calif. 1,437

40 Garden Of The Gods Park Colorado Springs, Colo 1,367

41 City Park New Orleans, La. 1,300

42 Forest Park St. Louis, Mo. 1,293

28 - Rock Creek (D.C.), more like the River Des Peres than Forest Park in some places! Beautiful = yes, larger urban park than Forest Park = no



33 - Ft. Harrison (Indianapolis), former military installation, largely inaccessible, also far into the burbs



38 - Mt. Airy (Cincinnati), mostly steep ravines, some hiking paths, very much a suburban setting



40 - Garden of the Gods (Colorado Springs), impossible to know where the park begins and ends. Not an urban park.



If we're talking about the largest park somewhat near a city, I'll go with the Northeast Greenland park, just on the outskirts of the urbannity that is Daneboug, Greenland at 375,289 square miles. Now THAT's a park.



I've spent too much time on this already, but just for the record, you heard it here first:

"St. Louis - home to the largest urban park in the world!!!!!!"

stellar wrote:
Since moving to the city I've developed the same aversion to the terms "ghetto" and "inner city".

I hate those terms. This morning I was working (at WGHS) and somebody joked about having to park at my house (we're having parking issues at the HS because of no land to expand; despite the fact that students will drive from two blocks away), so I told them that wouldn't make very much sense since I lived in the city. And the police liason walked by and made some comment about not parking in the ghetto.



If he wasn't a police officer, I would have shot him. Then the Asst Principal referred to where I live as downtown. Ugh, it's not the 'ghetto' nor is it 'downtown', it's the city. Then I asked them if they knew that the city started on the other side of Shrewbury...I couldn't belive it when the AP, the Liason and the other guy I was talking to were surprised.

Wait, what? There are relatively decent neighborhoods in the City? Who knew? Well, ya learn somethin new everyday, doncha?



I've also always bristled at "ghetto." Way overused, and most of the time inappropriately.

trent wrote:

stellar wrote:
Since moving to the city I've developed the same aversion to the terms "ghetto" and "inner city".

I hate those terms. This morning I was working (at WGHS) and somebody joked about having to park at my house (we're having parking issues at the HS because of no land to expand; despite the fact that students will drive from two blocks away), so I told them that wouldn't make very much sense since I lived in the city. And the police liason walked by and made some comment about not parking in the ghetto.



If he wasn't a police officer, I would have shot him. Then the Asst Principal referred to where I live as downtown. Ugh, it's not the 'ghetto' nor is it 'downtown', it's the city. Then I asked them if they knew that the city started on the other side of Shrewbury...I couldn't belive it when the AP, the Liason and the other guy I was talking to were surprised.

Yeah, but as you probably know as well as anyone, you Webster folks tend to be an insular bunch. I will say though, that some of the bolder Webster grads I know have branched out from Webster into Rock Hill and Maplewood.

Don't lump me in with Webster folks. I'm only coaching there now, I wouldn't live there if free housing was provided.

I like the term "Heartland".

Every time he said "heartland," I felt as if a little piece of St. Louis was crushed. I don't like the term at all.

Jax wrote:Every time he said "heartland," I felt as if a little piece of St. Louis was crushed. I don't like the term at all.

I know what you mean. When it is overused, it can be a nice way of saying "flyover country". Instead of of identifying St. Louis as St. Louis, it can be a way of blending St. Louis into the vast, PERCEIVED sameness of the Midwest. It is like saying, "Sorry, we don't have time to learn and understand your real identity."

Expat wrote:

Jax wrote:Every time he said "heartland," I felt as if a little piece of St. Louis was crushed. I don't like the term at all.

I know what you mean. When it is overused, it can be a nice way of saying "flyover country". Instead of of identifying St. Louis as St. Louis, it can be a way of blending St. Louis into the vast, PERCEIVED sameness of the Midwest. It is like saying, "Sorry, we don't have time to learn and understand your real identity."

So when anyone uses the term Northeast or New England, they are dissing Boston or New York? I don't think so...

DeBaliviere wrote:Hell, "12th largest city" sounded good, although it makes me question the accuracy of the facts reported elsewhere in their newscast.

Really? You are just now questioning the accuracy of the "facts" reported in the media?

I thought Brian Williams mentioning the city as the 12th largest was excellent publicity- even if it isn't correct. 18th metro

I thought it it showed off st. louis very well. I liked how in the begininning the annoucer said "reporting tonight from ST. LOUIS" and NOT "St. Louis, Missouri" - this is a major city, everyone should know where it is.

I'm not upset that the newscast didn't cover a lot of things happening in the city, even though it would have been nice. When he reports from LA he doesn't spend time talking about developments there. No instead, it makes us look like a major city, just like LA, or New York. A regular national news program from st. louis. not some cheeseball fluff, full of "local stories."

The reason he reported from here is because of his large audience here, due to KSDK.

I was gritting my teeth the whole time looking at the joke of the Gateway Mall/ Gateway One building, but the arch shot still looked great.

Wish there was more traffic on Market.



We should get him to come back as often as possible.