urbanSTL

^ It needs security but I don't think it is the same needs as the top-secret intelligence facility in Arnold, The way I understand it is that the Arnold facility is more like NSA while the one in the city is more of a mapping/records facility. I think Arnold had a role in the Bin Laden operation.

johnnyqnola wrote:It is in Kosciusko, at Arsenal and 2nd streets, across Broadway from the Brewery.

What johnny said. The boundaries are Cherokee St, 2nd St, Arsenal St and the Mississippi River.

The problem with this agency's potential relocation is the same problem I think is behind every relocation, downsizing, failure to successfully woo various corporate expansions. I believe at my core that if we want to hold onto more and better jobs, and generally address the majority of problems the city has, then we seriously need to work on growing the city and inner rings' population of people with 4 year bachelors' degrees.

In order to do this, we MUST HAVE more and bigger colleges (i.e. reasons for people to come to STL) in this heavily urbanized area, and a greater diversity of degrees (the med/law stuff is great, but it's not broad enough by a long shot) that will help STL to become a fully functioning, self contained economy so to speak. STL is 26% bachelor degreed (the county is only 36%) among the over-25 population. It is a chicken and egg problem, and in this case I really think step 1 is for existing colleges to focus on growing their student populations aggressively, and new colleges must be created to fill that gaps that aren't well covered by the existing institutions as well as to offer more institutional competition for students. Plus we need SLPS to guarantee student spots and an acceptable income demographic mix to professional families in order to make relocations feasible and attractive.

With such a small pool of people with bachelors' degrees for businesses to choose from, it is no mystery to me why we have such a hard time retaining the companies we have and attracting new ones, let alone keeping those that stay here in the urban core. Put another way, the city of STL only has about 80,000 people with college degrees, and even the entirety of STL County adds only about 360k. Compared to just the cities (all from peer metros by population) of Minneapolis/St Paul (about 300k), Denver (about 260k), Pittsburgh (about 100k), San Diego (about 500k), Baltimore (about 180k), and Seattle (almost 400k), this is super duper low. This matters because of the social density of ideas. The 400k degreed people in Seattle will always be more effective at developing new ideas than the 440k degreed people spread throughout STL City and the expansive hinterlands of the county.

In light of such limited personnel options, why should NGIA or any other group stay here? It is a question that needs to be asked. Why should companies in general stay here if there isn't a big built-in talent pipeline?

onecity wrote:The problem with this agency's potential relocation is the same problem I think is behind every relocation, downsizing, failure to successfully woo various corporate expansions. I believe at my core that if we want to hold onto more and better jobs, and generally address the majority of problems the city has, then we seriously need to work on growing the city and inner rings' population of people with 4 year bachelors' degrees.

In order to do this, we MUST HAVE more and bigger colleges (i.e. reasons for people to come to STL) in this heavily urbanized area, and a greater diversity of degrees (the med/law stuff is great, but it's not broad enough by a long shot) that will help STL to become a fully functioning, self contained economy so to speak. STL is 26% bachelor degreed (the county is only 36%) among the over-25 population. It is a chicken and egg problem, and in this case I really think step 1 is for existing colleges to focus on growing their student populations aggressively, and new colleges must be created to fill that gaps that aren't well covered by the existing institutions as well as to offer more institutional competition for students. Plus we need SLPS to guarantee student spots and an acceptable income demographic mix to professional families in order to make relocations feasible and attractive.

With such a small pool of people with bachelors' degrees for businesses to choose from, it is no mystery to me why we have such a hard time retaining the companies we have and attracting new ones, let alone keeping those that stay here in the urban core. Put another way, the city of STL only has about 80,000 people with college degrees, and even the entirety of STL County adds only about 360k. Compared to just the cities (all from peer metros by population) of Minneapolis/St Paul (about 300k), Denver (about 260k), Pittsburgh (about 100k), San Diego (about 500k), Baltimore (about 180k), and Seattle (almost 400k), this is super duper low. This matters because of the social density of ideas. The 400k degreed people in Seattle will always be more effective at developing new ideas than the 440k degreed people spread throughout STL City and the expansive hinterlands of the county.

I don't know why everyone keeps on comparing St. Louis to Denver and Minneapolis/St. Paul. Unless a meteor were to strike halfway between Columbia and Jeff City, St. Louis will never be home to the state capital and the main university campus.

And I don't know why you put St. Louis and San Diego in the same grouping? How can we ever compare ourselves to a coastal/border city with 300+ days of sunshine and temperatures between 70 and 85 degrees?

The city, county and state need to work hard on keeping the east coast and foreign Wash U. students here. I only know of one who came from the east coast for a bachelors or masters and stayed here. Everyone else got the f*ck out of here as fast as possible and never looked back.

onecity wrote:In light of such limited personnel options, why should NGIA or any other group stay here? It is a question that needs to be asked. Why should companies in general stay here if there isn't a big built-in talent pipeline?

So you're saying we should all just give up and leave? Okay.

Would the last person leaving St. Louis please turn the lights off on their way out?

First, I don't think we'll lose the NGA unless they decide to add to the current Virginia/DC area complex. It's not like they'll move it to another mid range city. The jobs and skills there are too specific. Plus I don't think you get in the front door there unless you've got secret or top secret clearance or can easily get it.

Cool Story Bro time:
Over 20 years ago I dated a gal who worked at the NGA. I got to know a few of her coworkers and she was the only St. Louisan in her group. Most were ex-military.

Onecity, I really don't see how you come up with the perception that the region doesn't have enough colleges graduate after you look at the fact that there is multiple universities within the region with everything from UMSL and SIUE to one the best well known private college in Wash U and one of the better known Jesuit colleges in SLU and then take the multiple smaller private colleges and other institutions such as Webster University to Marysville and so on. The question is not enough but retaining once someone graduates. If anything, I think the community college system needs to be beefed up with IT, vocational and advance manufacturing.

In the urban core. Outside the city and dense inner ring, it doesn't really add to the city's strength. Also, the numbers. It takes our city and county to match the number of grads many of these other cities alone have. That is not perception, it is fact.

I'm not saying pack it up and go home. I'm saying start a damn public research uni in the city stat. Get this ball rolling. Screw the "this is a _______ and always will be" thinking, because it is stupid.

^I'm all for a couple more colleges it I think you overstate the problem. MSA is the only way to compare to other cities. You get closer to comparable when you add the county into the stats. If you compare STL city to Denver look at the suburban areas with Denver's and you'll see a lot of county like suburban development that they are taking credit for.

Just saying don't think that establishing a couple colleges is going to fix all the problems. There are a lot of structural issues that need to be addressed. Higher ed opportunities are just one issue for the region.

And to the state capital issue that keeps coming up. There are MANY state capitals that aren't all that amazing. Gateway City will tell you all about Olympia... The bigger issue I think is that there are to competing urban areas in this state. The only states I can think of that have made that work, is California, and Texas. The rest have the same struggles we have, or one city has become dominant while the other struggles (New York).

1) These are all metros of 2.5-3.5 M people. What better comparison could you ask for? Denver has 2x as many residents in 2.4x the land area as STL. That isn't a huge difference. MPLS-SP has 700k people in twice the land area. Comparable, and even denser. San Diego has 1.3M in 372 sq. mi, and from aerial views has a large, dense core comparable to STL. Pittsburgh has three rivers going around downtown, since STL doesn't have three rivers going around downtown, I guess it also isn't comparable? These excuses "we can't compare STL to _______ because of this or that" are too funny.

2) We don't need the state capital, or to move Mizzou. STL needs to establish its own big public research U. Doable. If the colleges aren't in the urban core, the students don't likely live in the urban core, and they see STL as either another faceless burbdom, or they see the evening news picture of STL, which we all know presents the city in a positive light. It shouldn't be that difficult to grasp why location matters. How much tangible impact does a Maryville, located 10 miles outside 170 (10 miles!) really have? How much impact does a Wash U, which only admits 16% of applicants, and which only has a student body of about 10k really have? Where do all the local non-ivy kids go? I'm all for boosterism, but this is a major lack in STL, and not addressing it is passively destructive. Without a big knowledge pipeline (local unis in the city core), good luck being anything but a fading blue collar has-been of a city in an age of blue collar outsourcing. Have fun with that!

In the mean time i'll keep my fingers crossed and hope we won't be losing anymore valuable jobs ...

Giving businesses a compelling reason to be here - quick and ready access to a never-ending pool of college grads in diverse fields of study - is a much better bet than crossing my fingers.

onecity wrote:1) These are all metros of 2.5-3.5 M people. What better comparison could you ask for? Denver has 2x as many residents in 2.4x the land area as STL. That isn't a huge difference. MPLS-SP has 700k people in twice the land area. Comparable, and even denser. San Diego has 1.3M in 372 sq. mi, and from aerial views has a large, dense core comparable to STL. Pittsburgh has three rivers going around downtown, since STL doesn't have three rivers going around downtown, I guess it also isn't comparable? These excuses "we can't compare STL to _______ because of this or that" are too funny.

Why is it funny?

Okay: toss out my stupid comments about state capitals and weather. But if someone is going to complain about the number of college grads a certain city has, I certainly think the proximity of the main state university campus in a city is a major consideration.

onecity wrote: We don't need...move Mizzou. STL needs to establish its own big public research U. Doable. If the colleges aren't in the urban core, the students don't likely live in the urban core, and they see STL as either another faceless burbdom, or they see the evening news picture of STL, which we all know presents the city in a positive light.

A whole new big public research university, from scratch? In the city St. Louis? That's a "putting a man on the moon" scale project. I got yelled at in other threads just for proposing moving UMSL or Webster to the city.

onecity wrote: How much impact does a Wash U, which only admits 16% of applicants, and which only has a student body of about 10k really have?

Not much as most Wash U grads leave here as fast as possible and never come back. Not even to visit.

onecity wrote: Without a big knowledge pipeline (local unis in the city core), good luck being anything but a fading blue collar has-been of a city in an age of blue collar outsourcing. Have fun with that!

I agree 100%. St. Louis needs to stop bleeding college grads AND attracting grads from elsewhere.