Municipal Courts Bldg. Market Street

roger wyoming II · PostApr 04, 2015#1262015-04-04T17:14+00:00

^ I think I prefer maxing out the CBD as much as possible at this point. but you make some excellent points. btw, do you know if there was a TOD plan prepared for the Civic Center station? That surface lot needs to be redeveloped as mixed-use as part of the larger development.

I kind of envision a partnership between Vertical, Blues ownership and McEagle to develop it as a property that serves the parking needs for the Muni Courts building but also additional parking for the Scottrade/Peabody and having some retail/bar/restaurant with a bit of Blues Hockey theme.

Definitely a Tim Horton's and maybe offer Bobby Plager's Place to move over from Wash Ave. Get that awesome Arena tile back from the City Museum for behind the bar. Could go large and put in one of those fancy indoor ice rinks that the Sabres have for their development. And top Buffalo with a rooftop ice rink for winter.

goat314 · PostApr 20, 2015#1272015-04-20T12:29+00:00

Future of 14th and Clark?

Another garage?

This thing looks hideous!

Interesting that they put the Metrolink or Streetcar line on 14th.

dbInSouthCity · PostApr 20, 2015#1282015-04-20T13:05+00:00

its not just a garage..most of the building will be retail with a garage added to the top...i dont mind it and i dont mind the look of it.

roger wyoming II · PostApr 20, 2015#1292015-04-20T13:16+00:00

wait, what? Muni Courts won't have a garage on top..... the plan is for the parking lot to have a mixed-use garage/office tower/street retail.

As for design, I'd have to see more but it looks like it could work pretty well. Nicer if parking could be sunk below ground, but that is mucho dinero.

PostApr 20, 2015#1302015-04-20T13:35+00:00

STLEnginerd wrote:Still wishing Metro had selected this building for their new digs.

From the KMOX report this morning, it sounds like that was in consideration but the parking issue was a hold up according to the Vertical rep. Sounds like they have that worked out with the city now so we'
ll see if this latest proposal has legs and if there is a tenant in the background able to make the office work.

wabash · PostApr 20, 2015#1312015-04-20T14:06+00:00

roger wyoming II wrote:the plan is for the parking lot to have a mixed-use garage/office tower/street retail.

So, just to clarify, what we're looking at is ground floor retail, with about 5-7 levels of parking garage above it, with 4-5 levels of office space above that?

roger wyoming II · PostApr 20, 2015#1322015-04-20T14:51+00:00

^ I believe so. Looks like good retail frontage on both Clark and 14th with garage entry on the east edge of Clark from what I can tell.

btw, here is a rendering of the initial Vertical Realty concept for a garage and separate office structures....

I believe I like the tower better.

downtown2007 · PostApr 20, 2015#1332015-04-20T14:59+00:00

Build it up to the street and get rid of the dumb plaza.

roger wyoming II · PostApr 20, 2015#1342015-04-20T15:02+00:00

^ Looks like that is the new plan. One edit to ^^ is that there is midrise between the Muni Courts building and the tower so that could either be more office or garage in there.

wabash · PostApr 20, 2015#1352015-04-20T15:04+00:00

^it looks like that's what the new rendering does. The street wall appears closer to matching the Muni Courts as opposed to incorporating a plaza.

It's really hard to tell with a rendering this rudimentary. It could look kind of cool and futuristic, it could also look like a brutalist incoherent monstrosity - really it depends on the materials, finishes, and details.

True_dope · PostApr 20, 2015#1362015-04-20T18:04+00:00

I wish it was 15 floors of office space or 20 floors of residential anyway seems good to me would look better if it was taller. I hope they found or can get a company from out side of the city.

roger wyoming II · PostApr 20, 2015#1372015-04-20T18:14+00:00

^ It would be good to know the square footage allocated for office space.... the tower portion looks rather slender but again there could be more in that midrise portion. It'll be crazy (and headshaking) if they land the first office new construction over BPV.

True_dope · PostApr 20, 2015#1382015-04-20T18:56+00:00

roger wyoming II wrote:^ It would be good to know the square footage allocated for office space.... the tower portion looks rather slender but again there could be more in that midrise portion. It'll be crazy (and headshaking) if they land the first office new construction over BPV.

If that dose happen hopefully it would embarrass Cordish and cardinals make them try harder

dredger · PostApr 20, 2015#1392015-04-20T19:42+00:00

Goat, curious where the rendering came from if you can share? Assume Vertical Development group (believe I got the name right)

Interesting to say, I think the idea of getting rid of the plaza is good as well as keeping lines with existing muni building & having the outdoor billboard kinda neat, or at least gave Clark little extra for game days. However, they seem to sell short on the space above the garage and surprised that it would go office before residential.

Another speculative thought, could this be Answers.com new home? A thought that wanted to throw out there for everyone else

roger wyoming II · PostApr 20, 2015#1402015-04-20T20:00+00:00

^ Michael Calhoun of KMOX covered the story this morning and tweeted the rendering. He's probably the best reporter in town covering urbanist stories.

stlien · PostApr 21, 2015#1412015-04-21T03:30+00:00

dredger wrote:Goat, curious where the rendering came from if you can share? Assume Vertical Development group (believe I got the name right)

Interesting to say, I think the idea of getting rid of the plaza is good as well as keeping lines with existing muni building & having the outdoor billboard kinda neat, or at least gave Clark little extra for game days. However, they seem to sell short on the space above the garage and surprised that it would go office before residential.

Another speculative thought, could this be Answers.com new home? A thought that wanted to throw out there for everyone else

I thought about this too. But then remembered that buildings like Chemical are still vacant and will only work as residential. I don't think downtown has any shortage of possible residential conversions, but office on the other hand, needs to be updated. New office in Clayton and now Cortex seem to have good luck attracting office users. Also, I think the area around Scottrade currently works better for office, considering there are no real residential services in the immediate area.

This location would be awesome for Answers.com. Would be cool to see their name on a building in downtown as opposed to the Loop.

framer · PostApr 21, 2015#1422015-04-21T04:37+00:00

We've gotta get better renderings. Like Wabash says, materials and detail will make or break this thing.

dredger · PostApr 21, 2015#1432015-04-21T05:15+00:00

stlien, don't really see a high rise residential but do think either mid size office space and or size residential would work here, maybe 5-7 stories. The big thing of course, for once a garage proposal with something on top!! That would be a huge step forward and great addition to Clark. It doesn't have to be huge in square footage but something that says I'm here

I still think BPV or even Drury anchoring Washington Ave on Laclede's Landing are the best spots as far as high rise residential tower/or even hotel/residential tower downtown. As far as a new class A office tower, I would take McKees gateway mall west bookend tower with a new 22nd street blvd over BPV right now. I think office will eventually come to BPV but just have a gut feeling that a signature office tower should be on the other end of/bookend the Gateway Mall

moorlander · PostApr 21, 2015#1442015-04-21T14:49+00:00

Pretty sure that rendering was made in Microsoft paint

robertn42 · PostApr 21, 2015#1452015-04-21T16:09+00:00

Wouldn't this be a great location for Scottrade with the arena bearing their name across the street. They would basically dominate 2 city blocks with their name extremely visible from the highway and any helicopter/blimp that takes shots of the city for any sporting event ever. I would also think the proximity to DT's data infrastructure/data centers would be extremely beneficial to them in this era of high-speed trading.

roger wyoming II · PostApr 21, 2015#1462015-04-21T16:27+00:00

^ Scottrade is one of the companies that can most easily change the dynamic by moving downtown as they lease and don't own their office. But they just committed to more out in the WayOut Zone so I'm not sure when they will face a decision on their next large block of space.

(also, I think it is kinda weird that Sprint is out in the KC burbs but H&R Block has its new HQ next to Sprint Center.)

jsbru · PostApr 21, 2015#1472015-04-21T23:25+00:00

I can't imagine that ANY more parking is necessary for downtown, but I'm not going to complain if it brings new construction and street-level retail on what currently is just a surface lot. I'll bet the parking element is just something to appease the banks loaning the money for the project in case the office space becomes difficult to rent out.

As an added bonus, this building looks pretty cool and is visible from the highway.

dredger · PostApr 22, 2015#1482015-04-22T04:25+00:00

Does anyone think their is something behind this? financing? Possible anchor tenant? Or we just looking at a developer getting some buzz with a rendering?

dbInSouthCity · PostApr 24, 2015#1492015-04-24T14:17+00:00

Melbourne can put new next to old...

roger wyoming II · PostAug 26, 2015#1502015-08-26T18:04+00:00

I still very much like the idea of a Blues training facility to go up on the surface lot.... some street level commercial could still be part of that as well as my dream of a rooftop outdoor rink open to the public.

Here is what the Pacers will be doing across from their sports palace:

http://www.ibj.com/articles/54613-st-vi ... ing-center

Municipal Courts Bldg. Market Street

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