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Overall this will be a nice addition to the Loop. It looks similar to the Regional Arts Commission (shown in the PDF) which is OK. I really like the RAC, but maybe not a second building so similar. I also like the "original concept" that had the building front comming directly to the sidewalk. I think the new concept looks to much like a tiny building with a HUGE monster looming at its back. Incorporating the facade into the new facade would have been much better IMO. It would have made the building more interesting to me. Instead I think we have an interesting building with a glorified Marriott Courtyard attached.
man, DeBaliviere, you said it. "not what I was expecting".
This looks like a nice attempt but didn't quite make it. Joe Edwards is St. Louis' best developer, I think the Loop should deserve better. Either make it historic or make it completely modern, none of this "in the middle" business. Yikes, and that little nod to the Regional Arts Commission roof thing...w.t,F is that?! This building could be MUCH more. Come on Joe, you've gotten 10/10 on everything else you've done.
Is Kate Shea qualified for her position? Really, what are her credentials. sorry, but the Loop demands better.
This looks like a nice attempt but didn't quite make it. Joe Edwards is St. Louis' best developer, I think the Loop should deserve better. Either make it historic or make it completely modern, none of this "in the middle" business. Yikes, and that little nod to the Regional Arts Commission roof thing...w.t,F is that?! This building could be MUCH more. Come on Joe, you've gotten 10/10 on everything else you've done.
Is Kate Shea qualified for her position? Really, what are her credentials. sorry, but the Loop demands better.
What about something like this, but maybe more modern? Maybe it could be done more cheaply- somehow.. Anything to make it NOT look like a Marriott Courtyard. I was also thinking of crazy blue lights, "moonrise", something like the top of the Chase's starlight roof but with more bright or neon lights.
http://www.hotel-rates.com/ireland/cork ... -cork.html
Or:
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http://www.hotel-rates.com/ireland/cork ... -cork.html
Or:
Very disappointing. I especially dislike the setback. The tower should match the existing building line. This would have been a great opportunity to enhance the density of the Delmar streetscape.
If you're gonna re-use the old facade, then the new portion should relate to it somehow. This new addition is just a suburban hotel tacked-on to a dismembered old facade. And the goofy clock-tower is just a pointless gimmick.
I'm not surprised that this was designed by ACI/Boland. They've been designing boring office buildings in West County for years. But I expected better from Edwards.
If you're gonna re-use the old facade, then the new portion should relate to it somehow. This new addition is just a suburban hotel tacked-on to a dismembered old facade. And the goofy clock-tower is just a pointless gimmick.
I'm not surprised that this was designed by ACI/Boland. They've been designing boring office buildings in West County for years. But I expected better from Edwards.
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It looks bland from that rendering. I am kind of surprised, but it sounds like financing was difficult.
Are there balconies? <admits>
Are there balconies? <admits>
What's with the cheesy roof thingy?
Not an earth-shatteringly cool design by any means, but I'm looking forward to seeing the cranes. Hopefully the final designs will be fine-tuned and improved as construction moves forward.
Not an earth-shatteringly cool design by any means, but I'm looking forward to seeing the cranes. Hopefully the final designs will be fine-tuned and improved as construction moves forward.
- 11K
STLgasm wrote:Hopefully the final designs will be fine-tuned and improved as construction moves forward.
I hope so too, but I don't know that I've ever seen it happen.
J-City - that would be fantastic in the Loop. (now re-size the photo!)
I think that really fits in well with the rest of the area. Should be a good addition. I think many of you are cutting it short.
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The design is neither here nor there for me. It kind of looks like an average Holiday Inn, but considering what it will do for the neighborhood I'll gladly take it!
- 11K
A hotel in the Loop is fantastic - I just feel that this could have really announced that the Loop had arrived! The Pageant is great too, but cheesy construction. RAC and a couple other buildings had started to add a modern/slight better design feel. It seems like we're not moving forward anymore.
- 90
wow...what a train wreck ... too much going on. Looks like three people tried to design this.
that "hat" clock tower thing is just silly
get an architect who knows what they're doing, Joe
that "hat" clock tower thing is just silly
get an architect who knows what they're doing, Joe
Doesn't sound like Joe gets the "blame" on this one. Take a look at the renderings on page 3 and read the following quote:
and...
So the City staff complained that the original design, that had the new building pulled closer to the street, didn't emphasize the recreated historic building so Joe pulled the upper stores of the building away from the street and in the process reduced its size and profitability? Who in the Cultural Resources Office thought this was a good idea?
Hmm... we have an thriving retail corridor looking to further enhance its vitality by adding a hotel and conference space, so clearly it makes sense to call for the developer to cut back the the number of guest rooms and amount of conference space so as to emphasize a recreated historic building. Last thing the City/ region needs it more visitors to the Loop...
Of course, this just reinforces my main issue with the CRO and St. Louis' historic district regulations. There are places (such as Lafayette Square) where a strict adherence to the existing historical style makes a lot of sense.
There are other places (such as Soulard and the Loop) where the regulations and their interpretation should be more forgiving. The emphasis in these areas should be on the use of quality materials and on good site design (conformance with building setback, etc.) and its relationship to creating thriving modern neighborhoods more than on the need to emphasize new "historic" looking buildings.
To be fair to the CRO and the use of historic preservation in St. Louis, it is one of the few strong avenues for design control in the City (along with the giving the public the opportunity to see and comment on designs) with the absence of modern zoning.
After an initial meeting with staff, Mr. Edwards and the design team from ACI/Boland, Inc. redesigned the project to further emphasize the re-created historic building. The redesign resulted in the loss of guest and conference rooms from the Hotel.
and...
After meeting with staff of the Cultural Resources Office, the developer and designers redesigned a portion of the project to place the front historic building in a more clearly defined position. In making this change the pro forma of the project was negatively affected by the loss of hotel and conference rooms. The design of the room air handling equipment was also changed.
So the City staff complained that the original design, that had the new building pulled closer to the street, didn't emphasize the recreated historic building so Joe pulled the upper stores of the building away from the street and in the process reduced its size and profitability? Who in the Cultural Resources Office thought this was a good idea?
Hmm... we have an thriving retail corridor looking to further enhance its vitality by adding a hotel and conference space, so clearly it makes sense to call for the developer to cut back the the number of guest rooms and amount of conference space so as to emphasize a recreated historic building. Last thing the City/ region needs it more visitors to the Loop...
Of course, this just reinforces my main issue with the CRO and St. Louis' historic district regulations. There are places (such as Lafayette Square) where a strict adherence to the existing historical style makes a lot of sense.
There are other places (such as Soulard and the Loop) where the regulations and their interpretation should be more forgiving. The emphasis in these areas should be on the use of quality materials and on good site design (conformance with building setback, etc.) and its relationship to creating thriving modern neighborhoods more than on the need to emphasize new "historic" looking buildings.
To be fair to the CRO and the use of historic preservation in St. Louis, it is one of the few strong avenues for design control in the City (along with the giving the public the opportunity to see and comment on designs) with the absence of modern zoning.
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Yup.
I understand that the change was forced - a stupid requirement if you ask me.
I understand that the change was forced - a stupid requirement if you ask me.
- 10K
He should move this project to a vacant or underutilized property east of The Pageant, such as the old auto shop. It would have all the benefits of the current proposed location and would be even closer to the MetroLink stop. Perhaps it would even spur further eastern expansion of The Loop.
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Nice - that's a great point! The old funeral home could seemingly be used for other purposes while another vacant lot in the Loop could be built upon!
DeBaliviere wrote:He should move this project to a vacant or underutilized property east of The Pageant, such as the old auto shop. It would have all the benefits of the current proposed location and would be even closer to the MetroLink stop. Perhaps it would even spur further eastern expansion of The Loop.
But wasn't part of the reason he bought the funeral home was the way they towed Pin-Up Bowl and Halo Bar customer's cars?
I thought the funeral home had like one tiny little sign in one corner saying no parking. That gave them the right to tow every single car that parked on their lot even though there was nothing going on there.
Plus the spaces you talk about have been tied up in other development proposals.
If the funeral home was available and made business sense to keep his customers happy, what's wrong with Joe Edwards buying it and building a hotel there?
It could have been better, but it's a start. Overall I give the design a grade of "C". I like the incorporation of glass. Based on the rendering, like other newer structures along the Loop, it enlivens the area colorwise. The colors remind me of St. Charles' new Embassy Suites.
Currently there are no hotels, that I am aware of, on the Loop. If this hotel does well, then perhaps a nicer design might come along.
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Currently there are no hotels, that I am aware of, on the Loop. If this hotel does well, then perhaps a nicer design might come along.
- 10K
The first rendering makes it look like some of the low income apartment buildings found elsewhere on Delmar.
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Top rendering-blah.
Stretscape rendering...pretty decent...but why the puke and barf colors? THese soft flesh tone pastels kill me. Classic Blahrchitecture.
And at 2nd glance, I kinda like the horrible clock tower.
Stretscape rendering...pretty decent...but why the puke and barf colors? THese soft flesh tone pastels kill me. Classic Blahrchitecture.
And at 2nd glance, I kinda like the horrible clock tower.
It would look a lot better if they allowed him to build up to the street.
I don't think it looks inherently bad, it just seems that the color choice is "blah". If they choose good building materials it could come out looking a lot more contemporary than the rendering shows.
Remember this rendering?
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It's not groundbreaking and it doesn't jump off the page or anything, but I kind of like it. I think it is bound to become a local icon with all of those bands staying there all of the time.
I think the current lot they are building on is probably the best. It puts it close to the Pageant and Metrolink, as well as to the more established strip west of Skinker. While it could've maybe helped catalyze development further east, I think it is more important at this point to shore up the main intersection. I think good things will come on this intersection in the coming years because of this. The hotel also is relying on Washington University students/parents staying there. The current spot makes it incredibly convenient to the grad school and a straight shot up the road from the main campus. I could also see the triangle bounded by Delmar, Des Peres, and Rosedale being a good spot too (right across from the Metro stop), but hopefully we'll see a mixed use tower with some residences there in the future.
I don't think it looks inherently bad, it just seems that the color choice is "blah". If they choose good building materials it could come out looking a lot more contemporary than the rendering shows.
Remember this rendering?
It's not groundbreaking and it doesn't jump off the page or anything, but I kind of like it. I think it is bound to become a local icon with all of those bands staying there all of the time.
I think the current lot they are building on is probably the best. It puts it close to the Pageant and Metrolink, as well as to the more established strip west of Skinker. While it could've maybe helped catalyze development further east, I think it is more important at this point to shore up the main intersection. I think good things will come on this intersection in the coming years because of this. The hotel also is relying on Washington University students/parents staying there. The current spot makes it incredibly convenient to the grad school and a straight shot up the road from the main campus. I could also see the triangle bounded by Delmar, Des Peres, and Rosedale being a good spot too (right across from the Metro stop), but hopefully we'll see a mixed use tower with some residences there in the future.
In the rendering above, why is the third floor of the hotel well below the third floor of the Paegent? It looks like an attempt to make the building seem closer in height to it's surroundings. Won't 7 stories tower over the Pageant?
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The Pageant is a concert venue and the floors don't really correspond to the basic ~12ft/floor we would expect. The building next to it has three traditional height floors. The rendering is accurate.