Handheld validators that show when it was tapped. If you have a smart card, you won't need paper transfers or tickets.
CTA (Chicago) uses tap cards. Brilliant idea. I didn't even have to take it out of my wallet to tap, and I could refill it from my computer with a credit card. I love the tap cards.
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This is exciting. So when do we start to use the cards in McDonald's and at the public library? Will multiple card makers be compatible on our system or will we have an exclusive contract with just one? If Chicago has such a card, how hard is it for us to use the same system?
I've got like ten smartcards (Octopus, EZ-Link, etc.) in my wallet and I don't see the need. They all have money on them that I can't use unless I go back to the city where I got them. Seoul is about the same distance from Busan as St. Louis is from Chicago. I really do think all of South Korea should use the same card system. It would just make more sense. Seoul has three different subway operators, several smart card makers, and one unified payment system. Any card works on any train or bus, unless I go to Busan. In Busan, I need to use a different card. The same goes for Gwangju and most other big cities in this small country.
If St. Louis and Chicago are going to be joined by High-Speed-Rail, wouldn't it be great if people could go back and forth using the same transit card?
Most importantly, will Madison County Transit, St. Charles, the Loop Trolley, and all non-Metro tranist operators be using the same system? If I can transfer for free between a MetroBus and a MCT Bus using the same card, it will be a great day in America.
Why is Seoul's subway system better than Tokyo's? Because Tokyo, like Philadelphia, is splintered among dozens of private companies all demanding their own ticketing system. Seoul, while having separate operators, joins them all under a common user experience and a single payment system.
I've got like ten smartcards (Octopus, EZ-Link, etc.) in my wallet and I don't see the need. They all have money on them that I can't use unless I go back to the city where I got them. Seoul is about the same distance from Busan as St. Louis is from Chicago. I really do think all of South Korea should use the same card system. It would just make more sense. Seoul has three different subway operators, several smart card makers, and one unified payment system. Any card works on any train or bus, unless I go to Busan. In Busan, I need to use a different card. The same goes for Gwangju and most other big cities in this small country.
If St. Louis and Chicago are going to be joined by High-Speed-Rail, wouldn't it be great if people could go back and forth using the same transit card?
Most importantly, will Madison County Transit, St. Charles, the Loop Trolley, and all non-Metro tranist operators be using the same system? If I can transfer for free between a MetroBus and a MCT Bus using the same card, it will be a great day in America.
Why is Seoul's subway system better than Tokyo's? Because Tokyo, like Philadelphia, is splintered among dozens of private companies all demanding their own ticketing system. Seoul, while having separate operators, joins them all under a common user experience and a single payment system.
In San Francisco, we've finally seen 10 years and tons of dollars worth of work on our TransLink (soon to be Clipper) system pay off. Over the last few years, transit agencies across the Bay Area have started the program for a unified payment system using RFID cards. I can load any pass from any agency on them or simply load cash. I love having one card in my wallet that works on Muni, BART, Caltrain, AC Transit, Golden Gate Transit, VTA, ...
LA has done the same thing with their TAP card. I'd love to see the cards unified across the country. It doesn't need to be one national system. But, if each agency used an open-source system, they could all be compatible. I don't foresee being able to load cash in SF and use it in LA though. But, when I arrive in LA (or wherever), I would like to load cash/passes onto it at the airport/train station. Even better, I'd like to load money onto it online a few days before I leave and use the card by the time I arrive.
Even if the systems are never compatible, it would be nice to be able to buy a card from your destination city while in transit. Perhaps if you're on a train from Chicago to St. Louis, you could buy a Metro STL card with $5 already on it. Percaps you could buy it for $3 on the way there and get $2 back when you return it so that cards aren't wasted by out of towners who won't be using them frequently.
LA has done the same thing with their TAP card. I'd love to see the cards unified across the country. It doesn't need to be one national system. But, if each agency used an open-source system, they could all be compatible. I don't foresee being able to load cash in SF and use it in LA though. But, when I arrive in LA (or wherever), I would like to load cash/passes onto it at the airport/train station. Even better, I'd like to load money onto it online a few days before I leave and use the card by the time I arrive.
Even if the systems are never compatible, it would be nice to be able to buy a card from your destination city while in transit. Perhaps if you're on a train from Chicago to St. Louis, you could buy a Metro STL card with $5 already on it. Percaps you could buy it for $3 on the way there and get $2 back when you return it so that cards aren't wasted by out of towners who won't be using them frequently.
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Jax, a unified system for the country would be fantastic. I'm glad we're on the same page there.
I don't quite know the price of the card, but it makes sense that the user should bear the burden and not the transit agency. In Seoul, the cards are pretty much free. You only pay a lot if you get a sepcial one, like those fancy keychain things. I guess they're subsidized. In Singapore you pay about $15 for the card, but you can refund it any time. I forgot to do that when I moved to Seoul and had two EZ-Link cards in my wallet ($30!!!). I'm not sure if cards migrating out of town with tourists is really such a big loss.
In countries that have smart cards, they're usually sold by station agents. In Chicago last year I didn't have exact change for a train ticket at O'Hare and the station agent just shrugged and sent me to buy gum somewhere.
I do hope that if Metro switches to these cards that riders will be able to buy them at the stations. In the past, Metro didn't make it easy to buy monthly passes. We should pay for transit where we use it, not in remote downtown offices.
I don't quite know the price of the card, but it makes sense that the user should bear the burden and not the transit agency. In Seoul, the cards are pretty much free. You only pay a lot if you get a sepcial one, like those fancy keychain things. I guess they're subsidized. In Singapore you pay about $15 for the card, but you can refund it any time. I forgot to do that when I moved to Seoul and had two EZ-Link cards in my wallet ($30!!!). I'm not sure if cards migrating out of town with tourists is really such a big loss.
In countries that have smart cards, they're usually sold by station agents. In Chicago last year I didn't have exact change for a train ticket at O'Hare and the station agent just shrugged and sent me to buy gum somewhere.
I do hope that if Metro switches to these cards that riders will be able to buy them at the stations. In the past, Metro didn't make it easy to buy monthly passes. We should pay for transit where we use it, not in remote downtown offices.
I don't think anyone wants to carry around multiple cards in their wallet or purse. The next iPhone is rumored to be RFID-enabled and if takes off, I can imagine the feature will soon become ubiquitous. And the bonus is we won't need to carry around all those silly cards. Ref: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/ip ... reader.phpDaronDierkes wrote:This is exciting. So when do we start to use the cards in McDonald's and at the public library? Will multiple card makers be compatible on our system or will we have an exclusive contract with just one? If Chicago has such a card, how hard is it for us to use the same system?
Please plan for this, Metro.
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^It isn't hard to put a chip in your phone now. My Korean cellphone has a feature that lets me use the subway and charge it to my phone bill, but I don't use it. That article suggests the iPhone will be enabled to read the chips. That's the other way around, isn't it? That'd be useful for street venders and cabs.
I guess I should add that most Asian taxi cabs use the same card system as the trains and buses. Here's a picture of the T-Money Card reader on the center console.
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I guess I should add that most Asian taxi cabs use the same card system as the trains and buses. Here's a picture of the T-Money Card reader on the center console.
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Chips and swipe cards sound expensive and so 2000. The future is QR codes.
You can already pay your bill @ Starbucks using their iphone app qr code reader, Live nation recently announced that by 2014 they will be using qr code technology for and estimated 10million virtual tickets and now that mobile phone technology is finally catching up to the rest of the world you will be seeing qr code technology everywhere. Even Facebook is on board and will soon be issuing every user a personal qr code.\
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You can already pay your bill @ Starbucks using their iphone app qr code reader, Live nation recently announced that by 2014 they will be using qr code technology for and estimated 10million virtual tickets and now that mobile phone technology is finally catching up to the rest of the world you will be seeing qr code technology everywhere. Even Facebook is on board and will soon be issuing every user a personal qr code.\
I think qr codes are not going to be that popular for transit and payment systems due to the fact that any camera device with a screen or printer aka most cell phones can easily be used to copy one. This means that it would be very easy to hijack other users symbols. They are great for things that already need a barcode or are public data like on facebook, but for secure systems they are not so great. RFID is significantly more secure and is worth the 12 cents it cost to put one in a card.
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Maybe if you're talking about static qr codes but i'm talking about variable (unique) qr codes that can only be validated once, like a concert/game ticket. The security is on the back end, in the supporting software.
Google's also seriously throwing its weight behind QR codes. They've been sending out thousands of window stickers with QR codes to businesses listed on Google Maps, presumably so it's easy to just wave your cell phone over the sticker to leave a review of the place once you've eaten/shopped there.
They've also been using the barcodes pretty heavily on the Android platform too, and at this past Google I/O conference we all got QR codes on our name badges embedded with our contact info to make it easier to exchange info with other attendees.
They've also been using the barcodes pretty heavily on the Android platform too, and at this past Google I/O conference we all got QR codes on our name badges embedded with our contact info to make it easier to exchange info with other attendees.
First let me be clear that I don't know what a QR code is. I'm also not part of the smart card project, I have just heard a lot about it, in part so I could write the NextStopSTL blog post introducing the topic. That said, I know that the system Metro is planning on using for the smart cards will be upgradeable to use mobile phones at some point. So that option is built into the system we are considering. Also, visitors to St. Louis will still be able to buy a temporary pass and there won't be money just left on it. There will be a temporary pass and a permanent pass. Users will pay a fee for the card itself, but once you buy the card you should be able to keep it.
Madison County Transit is partnering with Metro on studying this system. Whether they adopt it is up to them, but the hope is to have one card that is compatible with both systems. That will make it easier and more efficient for us to track who is transferring between systems so that we can pay (or be paid by) MCT for usage.
Having one card for everyone everywhere is a nice idea, but there would have to be revenue-sharing (or reimbursement) agreements in place, and for now I doubt that the number of people who would use such an option would make it cost-effective to put those kinds of things into place. Come high-speed rail and the attendant increase (hopefully) in transit usage between the two cities and we may have a different situation. For now, just having a card at all - instead of exact change - is a leap into the present for Metro. (That's just my opinion, not sure what official "Metro" position would be.)
There aren't a lot more details I can get into right now mostly because many decisions still need to be made about how the system will operate and what options will be made available, so those details just don't exist right now. We definitely welcome your suggestions for implementation, but I just want to caution you not to get wedded to any particular facet because the finished product, when deployed, may differ significantly from what we're discussing here.
Madison County Transit is partnering with Metro on studying this system. Whether they adopt it is up to them, but the hope is to have one card that is compatible with both systems. That will make it easier and more efficient for us to track who is transferring between systems so that we can pay (or be paid by) MCT for usage.
Having one card for everyone everywhere is a nice idea, but there would have to be revenue-sharing (or reimbursement) agreements in place, and for now I doubt that the number of people who would use such an option would make it cost-effective to put those kinds of things into place. Come high-speed rail and the attendant increase (hopefully) in transit usage between the two cities and we may have a different situation. For now, just having a card at all - instead of exact change - is a leap into the present for Metro. (That's just my opinion, not sure what official "Metro" position would be.)
There aren't a lot more details I can get into right now mostly because many decisions still need to be made about how the system will operate and what options will be made available, so those details just don't exist right now. We definitely welcome your suggestions for implementation, but I just want to caution you not to get wedded to any particular facet because the finished product, when deployed, may differ significantly from what we're discussing here.
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It's amazing what a steady funding source will do for a transit system. Thank you again St. Louis County.
Let's hope that Bi-State is being smart with their procurement process here so they don't wind up in the same boat that the DC Metro system is finding themselves in now.
Their RFID-based fare card system is obsolete, because the vendor who produces the cards has decided to stop producing them.
This new fare collection system should rely on open standards so that if a single vendor goes belly up, all this funding that people fought for isn't flushed down the toilet.
Their RFID-based fare card system is obsolete, because the vendor who produces the cards has decided to stop producing them.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 06462.htmlWorsening the problem, the company that makes SmarTrip cards is discontinuing them, Metro officials said. Metro has purchased an estimated two-year inventory, but that could dwindle rapidly if customers purchased the cards in higher numbers.
Metro officials said they would have to switch to a new technology for SmarTrip cards in the future but provided no details.
"This is the only company that makes these cards. This chip and card will no longer be available," board Chairman Peter Benjamin said. In the meantime, "you have to watch what you do or you will end up with no cards."
This new fare collection system should rely on open standards so that if a single vendor goes belly up, all this funding that people fought for isn't flushed down the toilet.
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In Seoul they have an open system where multiple card companies compete for customers. I had a T-Money card and a U-Pass card, and I refilled them and used them on the same machines. Like I said before, if we matched up our system to be compatible with other cities like Chicago et all, there'd be a much better user experience. Amtrak should promote a national system...
I can use my credit card anywhere. In fact, my credit union has agreements with 'shared branches' around the country that let me use their establishments as if they belonged to my credit union. Amazing really. There are plenty of examples of global financial systems significantly more complicated than transit cards.
I can use my credit card anywhere. In fact, my credit union has agreements with 'shared branches' around the country that let me use their establishments as if they belonged to my credit union. Amazing really. There are plenty of examples of global financial systems significantly more complicated than transit cards.
Toward an international fare payment standard - Second Avenue Sagas
Today, we learn that Transport for London is working on its own plans to bring a credit card-based contactless payment system to the Underground, and they’re doing so in conjunction with the MTA, among others. According to The Telegraph, Transport for London officials are in talks with a number of international cities to ensure a common standard for next-gen fare payment plans. These cities include New York, Boston, Chicago, Paris, Sydney and Manchester.
Does Metro have its eyes on Near Field Communication (NFC) contactless payments via cell phones? St. Petersburg is rolling out a trial in Sep 2010 with a full rollout planned for sometime in 2011: http://www.nfctimes.com/news/st-petersb ... -ticketing
Google's flagship phone, the Nexus S, is the first to bring NFC technology to American customers: http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/06/sams ... -nfc-chip/. And the next iteration of the iPhone is expected to support NFC as well: http://www.tuaw.com/2010/11/01/rumor-ip ... computing/
Google's flagship phone, the Nexus S, is the first to bring NFC technology to American customers: http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/06/sams ... -nfc-chip/. And the next iteration of the iPhone is expected to support NFC as well: http://www.tuaw.com/2010/11/01/rumor-ip ... computing/
An article in today's P-D about Metro's new ticketing system:
Related, a recent article on This Big City profiled London's new ticketing system. Customers will be able to use a rechargable "Oyster" card to purchase fares, or just use their existing contactless debit/credit cards (perhaps with an extra fee associated).
My main question, will these passes be interoperable with the Loop Trolley, and any other non-Metro-owned transit systems that may pop up? I'm not necessarily opposed to having non-Metro-owned transit systems around, but the payment systems should at least be interoperable, especially if it's a refillable card system.Metro's new fare card system to cost extra $2.4 million BY KEN LEISER
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Once the new system is in place, Metro customers will be issued plastic cards with tiny electronic circuits that track the value of the card. Passengers will tap the cards on a fare box or validator before boarding a bus or train. The new system will permit Metro to modernize its fare-collection system and lower its costs. The new smart-card system also will help Metro deal with the problems of fare evasion and fraudulent passes, agency officials say.
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Poehler said the launch of the new smart card system was expected within the next two years. Because of the changes, Metro extended the contract period by one year to April 2012.
Related, a recent article on This Big City profiled London's new ticketing system. Customers will be able to use a rechargable "Oyster" card to purchase fares, or just use their existing contactless debit/credit cards (perhaps with an extra fee associated).
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It's fine if there's not 'interoperable' at first, but within a few years of the launch, it'd be absurd for the trolley and Madison County Transit to not be on the same platform.
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How?The new smart-card system also will help Metro deal with the problems of fare evasion and fraudulent passes, agency officials say.
^From rumors I've heard in the past, there will be some light/sound made when someone taps a card, making it obvious to security guards on the platform (or other passengers interested in meting out vigilante Metro justice) that no fare was bought. Not sure how practical this really is, though.
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Who gets the cards? Do you buy them somewhere and reload them? How about the tourist who is in town for 1 day and wants to ride it once? Seems like a waste to issue them a plastic card. The article seems short on details.
In San Francisco, we have plastic RFID cards that work (or will soon) with all the transit agencies around the region. For infrequent users, Muni (our City's transit system) has temporary paper cards with an RFID chip. They are reusable for 90 days and have a maximum value that can be stored on them.
There will still be short-term paper passes for out-of-towners and people who only want to ride once or twice.
As far as interoperability, Metro isn't the Lord of the World, so it's up to each individual system as to whether they join Metro's system. But if you want a system to join, you should let them know. It may be that some entities want to wait and see how it goes before saying yea or nay, and that's fine.
As far as interoperability, Metro isn't the Lord of the World, so it's up to each individual system as to whether they join Metro's system. But if you want a system to join, you should let them know. It may be that some entities want to wait and see how it goes before saying yea or nay, and that's fine.