urbanSTL

Sounds to me like the City and County will be able to act separately to pass Prop M funding, which isn’t the case now. Remember Busdad talked earlier about the County passing a ½ cent tax but the City passing no additional tax beyond collecting the already passed ¼ cent levy. Under the current Prop M rules it, wouldn’t the City have to also pass another ¼ cent tax for the County to collect its entire ½ cent tax?



Anyway, in thinking about Busdad’s questions, I have some basic questions about the future of Metrolink. While not knowledgeable on the nity gritty of train scheduling, I do think these questions are all worth considering.





1. Where will the riders on the Westport extension be going to and coming from? Currently, I get the impression that many riders on the system are reverse commuters from Illinois. Looking over the stations from the MTIA looks like they are proposing stops at Westport, Lindbergh near Page, and then Dielman. I question how many reverse commuters from Illinois would be using the West County line, with only the Westport stop being a true employment hub (and one that frankly is hostile to pedestrians without major improvements). Where do E-W Gateway and Metro expect the West County lines ridership to come from?



2. Where will the riders on the North County extension be going to and coming from? Much like the West County line, I wonder whether such a line will really just be a large park and ride line, with few employment anchors (outside of McEagle if they even care about such access). With few employment anchors, once again how many reverse commuters from Illinois will be an issue? Where do E-W Gateway and Metro expect the North County lines ridership to come from?



3. Talking service from Illinois, where do riders from Illinois demand to go? I figure the top stops for Illinois riders would be the CWE, Clayton, Downtown, and then maybe Wash U, the Galleria, the Airport, or UMSL.



4. Thinking about the long-term future of the system, what (honestly) is the likelihood of getting the north and south city lines? Right now, building more branches into the county off of the original mainline from forest park through downtown creates capacity issues, as Busdad has outlined. Under such a system lines to South County, West County, and North County must all travel through the CWE to get downtown. But, if the northside and southside lines are likely, then all of a sudden North County and South County commuters looking for a one-seat ride downtown no longer need to ride on the mainline. So I think this is a huge question. If, looking forward, the Metro system in the next 20 years is going to look something like a tree (one line from downtown to the CWE, with branches then coming off of it) then Metro would be wise to triple track the CWE-Downtown corridor, because no matter the extension in the County (metro north, metro south, west county, St. Charles,) they all will end up on the same track to get downtown.



5. Talking about how to merge the West County line into Clayton, while the low floor idea is intriguing (if only because it would be good for the region to get a taste of such a line), would Clayton really go for street running light rail? I would assume no, and further more, wouldn’t such a design preclude a one-seat ride from Westport to CWE or Downtown service?



Anyway back to the issue at hand, my initial reaction is to go big and bold (and expensive) with a subway under Forsyth branching off the new CC at the Forsyth Station, with the line coming up near Ladue and 170, maybe with a the line splitting here to go north to Westport and south to loop back around and connect with the CC at Forest Park Parkway. I also understand that such an idea would probably be prohibitively expensive. Being a bit more realistic, I think that paying up for the ‘Y’ near FPP and 170 make a great deal of sense if most West County riders are going to be going to the CWE, Downtown, and Clayton. Seems like a lack of a one-seat ride would really cut into the attractiveness of the West County line without that direct service.

southslider wrote:Westport is also now the region's densest employment center not currently on MetroLink. Likewise, the extension to North County provides a station at Boeing, the region's largest employer not currently on MetroLink.

A few things.



1. Clearly, transit dependit riders east of 170 traveling west is a good argument for ensuring that both extensions have one-steat rides to downtown and grand. Yet, it leaves open the question whether one-seat rides are needed from Illinois to west of 170.



2. While Westport maybe the regions densest employment cetner not on metrolink, is it likely that it will remain so dense? I metrolink coupling itself to the sinking ship rather than the rising star (Creve Coure)? Given the fact that Westport is not very walkable and the age of building in the area, a massive redevelopment of the area is possible (this being the upside of the Westport line in my mind). Is Maryland Heights on board with dense walkable development around Westport?



3. Good to hear about Boeing. Should make the North County line more sucessful.

trent wrote:Fascinating to read.



I'm not as well versed in this discussions as slider and busdad, but I'll throw a couple things out there.



One, with the developing areas on the east side, there is currently a limited access to Metrolink. I think the Alton, Edwardsville, Collinsville, O'Fallon...all areas that aren't served by MetroLink. I think the East Side is doing a pretty good job of building up, and an extension would be good over there. Not to mention that Illinois seems much more willing to fund these things.



For the Missouri side, I'd like to see a Y connecting the CCE to the original line, mostly because I think you could run it along a different path. I'd like to see service to areas like Webster (both downtown and Webster U) and Kirkwood (downtown and Meramec). The problem i see is that there is residential density in between these areas heading up to Westport, but if you ran it around the 270 area, you'd find more business areas.



Like the Hospitals at 40/270, the heavy areas around Olive/270 and Ballas, etc.



Like I said, just thoughts. But I just think that Webster and Kirwood are good areas that are underserved.

O'Fallon is too close to the Shiloh/ Scott AFB station to have its own line. I live only 5 minutes from it. People on the other side of town are a 5-10 minute drive to the Fairview Heights, Swansea, or College Station.



A line from Granite City to Alton makes sense. Another line from Fairmont City to Collinsville, and then Edwardsville, can also be done.

Here are two useful upgrades to the present Metrolink system, before the construction of a new line:



1. Place a Metrolink station at Sarah Street to serve the Grove. (Walking distance the same as Delmar Station to the West Loop.)



2. Install a pedestrian bridge from the East Airport Terminal to the south side of Highway 70, to serve Edmundson. Build a park and ride lot there also, which would collect extra revenue from multi-day-parking of airline travelers too. (Also, curtail the over-charging of the fairs originating at Lambert.)

I would settle for a grand south grand street car, along with a new grand avenue bridge and metrolink station. That is assuming hell freezes over first.

Doug wrote:I would settle for a grand south grand street car, along with a new grand avenue bridge and metrolink station. That is assuming hell freezes over first.

absolutely, a PDX style modern streetcar system to serve from at least grand center (or further north) to gravois. NEW BRIDGE, NEW GLEAMING STATION.



=D>



it's decided, let's do it.

^Ask East West Gateway.

TGE-ATW wrote:Does metrolink have an identity crisis? I think it needs to get its priorities together to a certain extent. Is it an urban transit system, or a commuter railway? NYC Subway or LIR. Granted both are important, but it seems like their is no coherent plan. Its like they are throwing darts at a map of the region. Does anyone know if there is a master-plan, and if so where is it?

Its both. On the Illinois side, it very much functions like a commuter railway, while in the city, it's obviously an urban transit system. This is , in some great sense, what makes the entire system so special.