urbanSTL

Wow, great info. Thanks Busdad.



Regarding testing, I have heard that there has been some testing of Cross County already. One of the two people who gave me the July 23 rumor said he was (somehow) able to ride from Shrewsbury to Forest park on one of these runs. Not having seen LRVs that far down the extension, I'm skeptical, but the signaling has been working for some time and the tracks and catenaries are up, so I guess it's not out of the question. Any possible truth to that?

It's really a shame that they didn't get that parking garage at Brentwood/I-64 built in time. Does anyone know exactly what happened to it? When the article came out in the Post last year about how the project was over budget and behind schedule, it seemed like it had just been forgotten about. It definitely needs to be in place before construction starts on I-64, or that project will push rush hours to an even lower level of hell. Someone needs to get it going now.



And I really hope the ridership on this extension beats all projections, or Metro's going to have a really hard time selling new lines to the north and south sides of the city. People have a very sour image of Metro as a project-builder and they have a lot of work to do to regain the fiscal trust of citizens.

First, there have been no trains operating to Shrewsbury. They are only going to the Skinker crossover. That's it. Scheduling will be developing some test schedules for full runs very soon however.



There may be some people driving the system on high rail but I am not sure about that. I will find out. Power all the way through is not there yet. Some trains may be dragged out of the southern reaches soon.



Next,, the parking garage is delayed for several reasons. First, the project was over budget and some within the Agency thought they could delete the project to reduce the cost. This resulted in a battle between the Planners and the Engineers. Now,to be fair, the engineers all wanted the parkride but the money was not there until the modified financing was approved by St. Louis County. Some argued that Metro wouldn't need the parking for a long time and the project could be postponed. Experience with N.Hanley and the Illinois expension suggested to others within the Agency that the demand for parking would actually be much higher than originally estimated. Eventually Salci concurred.



When the Sullivan attempt to challenge the additional bonding took place, the financial underwriters were unwilling to sign off on additional bonding until the court issues were resolved. This delay pushed off finalizing the Meridian deal.



Then finally negotiating the construction of the garage and working out an acceptable deal for both Metro and the developer took time. There were many times when it was unclear that Metro would come to an agreement.



There are still a few property problems to work out for the bus loop at Brentwood.



Anyway, those are some of the reasons. There is not just one reason.



Insuring bus interfaces and adequate park ride has been a major problem all along. Those who build the projects are often not really as concerned about the "amenities"...like park ride and bus interfaces. This was a problem even on the initial alignment. Planning lobbied for a Brentwood Metrobus turnaround because of the design of Metro Redefined. Eventually the bus interface was agreed to and will be built.



The Maplewood bus interface was cut out of the budget by Metro several years ago. Only the City of Maplewood was willing to step up to make the financial commitment for bus loop. ( Metro will essentially trade the Sutton loop for a new Manchester Station bus loop.)



The loop itself was (or is being designed) by the St.Louis County Highway department. Tax credits are slated to be sold to generate the funds for a four bus loop. It's questionable that the loop be completed by the early startup. This will cause Metro some problems of where to put the terminal point for three bus routes.



Metro has also had trouble with obtaining a demand actuated signal to permit left turns out of the loop for Eastbound routes. MDOT opposes it.



But its rare when these projects are perfectly planned and designed. Its more the art of the possible.

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Thanks for keeping us all so thoroughly informed!

As was posted on other parts of the forum, it looks like St. Charles city (not county) might have an urban dense corridor along the Missouri river. I know that the whole St. Chuck voted down Metro was a decade ago, but is there a grassroots way to prepare the masses? *heh* Maybe I'm wrong, but if St Charles could be brought into the fold that would definitely pump extra money into the budget. I would have to think with the fuel prices going up there would be much more interest in park/ride. Maybe I'm just being naive. Thanks for any suggestions.



Ciao

I like Salci, he seems to have gotten the CC extension under control since his arrival, I hope he sticks around to oversee the north-south extension.

I noticed three things:



Our platforms are small and like Salci said only accomodate two train cars when the ones in Chicago and San Francisco accomodate 10 cars or so. We should have left more room or built longer platforms.



It looks like to keep fares and taxes from going higher than the next bond issues and tax initiatives that we will begin charging a fee for the parking lots. This is common in other major cities and only serves to show our "free" mentality or operations does not always work. However, I would argue that a parking lot fee should not be greater than a gallon of gas.



Salci said that the collaborative he fired is irresponsible and is using political and perception manuevers to make him out to be the bad guy. How sad is it when a person or group of people do harm that affects the many or everybody else? Selfishness and our American individualistic spirit has reared its ugly head again. Here, I would advocate the ideals of eastern religions and Christianity (Christian liberalism not fundamentalism or passion movement) that say we should do things that are for the greater good like helping our neighbors and considering how our every action adversly affects those around us.



Social Principles

jonkleinow wrote:It's really a shame that they didn't get that parking garage at Brentwood/I-64 built in time. Does anyone know exactly what happened to it? When the article came out in the Post last year about how the project was over budget and behind schedule, it seemed like it had just been forgotten about. It definitely needs to be in place before construction starts on I-64, or that project will push rush hours to an even lower level of hell. Someone needs to get it going now.

The garage is under construction, but I don't know when it will be finished. The last I saw it the basement was dug and they had started pouring concrete. It will be located behind the Best Buy near the power substation.



I don't understand why Metro doesn't put a garage at the Shrewsbury Station. Will 800 parking spaces be enough? I believe it would be wise for them build one in the near future considering that station will be the end of the line for a long time.



According to the Salci interview, he's considering charging money at the park and rides. He mentioned that other cities have done it. Has anyone here ever had to pay for a park and ride?



Busdad thanks for the info, keep us updated on that opening date.

^Agreed.

There were some people on there advocating creating a line to UMB Bank Pavillion to "alleviate traffic during concets".

Just ridiculous.



But why wouldn't they expect something so stupid. After all, we certainly subsidize roads that are only used by a select few in the exurbs, why not a metroline.

According to the Salci interview, he's considering charging money at the park and rides. He mentioned that other cities have done it. Has anyone here ever had to pay for a park and ride?

I know you have to pay for park and ride for commuter trains to Philadelphia from Wilmington, DE, and for Metro's DC service at stations in MD (dont know about VA==probably).

Speaking of park and ride, does anyone know if the new Shrewsbury park and ride lot will have any long-term parking spaces (as found at several of the lots on the IL side)? We will likely be moving downtown next spring (:D) and it would be very convenient (and less expensive) for me to leave my car at the Shrewsbury lot and just take the Metrolink to it when I need to drive to west county.

^If by "long-term" parking, you mean overnight, then the answer is no. Cross County will open with 800 surface spots at Shrewsbury and initially only 200 spots at Brentwood, with the new 1,000-plus-spot garage at Brentwood opening next spring.

Jax wrote:...and it would be very convenient (and less expensive) for me to leave my car at the Shrewsbury lot and just take the Metrolink to it when I need to drive to west county.

You can park at my house and walk to Metrolink, and I'll only charge 80% of what you'd pay at an airport lot

Here are some updates.



Metro is close to a final agreement with St. Louis County making some of the 700-800 vacant spaces available for Metrolnk parking. It will require a premium pass priced at $80 rather than the new fall monthly $60 montly price. (Minneapolis sells its monthly pass for $76 per month. Metro will sell the regular monthly for $60 and $80 for the premium.) The premium pass will may allow airport long term parking in Clayton as an incentive.



A similar premium idea may be used to entice those interested in parking in Metro’s Landing garage to also get a transit benefit for $80 a month rather than the $60 monthly parking fee. The market would be drivers who occasionally want to park long term for airport travel and use Metrolink to get to the airport. It could also be an option for loft owners who want to have a garage for a car, but want to be able to use transit as well for not much more.



Airport parkng at free lots like Shrewsbury is expected to be in short supply so will not offer long term parking.



The premium pass will also be used for Richardson Road bus extension.

Hey, Hey, Hey!



I was driving home from my brief break-by-way-of-Quetico, when I entered Shrewsberry traveling on 44, and nearly had a heart attack when I saw two metro-link trains on the overpass, (near the gas tanks/rail yard)!





What does this mean? I think this is the line that crosses Manchester near Laclede's Station and Hanely, but I didn't think that was near completion. Any news?

FauxNews wrote:Hey, Hey, Hey!



I was driving home from my brief break-by-way-of-Quetico, when I entered Shrewsberry traveling on 44, and nearly had a heart attack when I saw two metro-link trains on the overpass, (near the gas tanks/rail yard)!





What does this mean? I think this is the line that crosses Manchester near Laclede's Station and Hanely, but I didn't think that was near completion. Any news?

Scroll up...



...and umm yes it is the same line that crosses Manchester and Hanley and it is opening this Fall. The cars are on the tracks for testing and measuring purposes, prior to opening. You must be from West County.

Xing wrote:I'm taking Metrolink tonight, to see the fireworks.



Wish me luck.



I hope the trains to fall over.

Good luck and [-o<



Actually, since they have destroyed the fair, the lines shouldn't be bad this year...but from past experience, in order to catch a Metrolink train after the fireworks you had to either watch the fireworks FROM the line, or be prepared to wait around for an hour after the fireworks were over.

I have a classic story from the early days of MetroLink and when the Fair was bigger. In the mid- to late-90s, the lines were so long at the Landing for the train that Tom Irwin's Bi-State had lined up buses with direct, non-stop service to North Hanley. Since non-stop, the bus service would actually be faster than taking the train, but folks, due to the anti-bus stigma, insisted on waiting in MetroLink's long lines, and despite BSDA employees talking to nearly everyone in line and desperately trying to convince folks.

jlblues wrote:

Xing wrote:I'm taking Metrolink tonight, to see the fireworks.



Wish me luck.



I hope the trains to fall over.

Good luck and [-o<



Actually, since they have destroyed the fair, the lines shouldn't be bad this year...but from past experience, in order to catch a Metrolink train after the fireworks you had to either watch the fireworks FROM the line, or be prepared to wait around for an hour after the fireworks were over.

destroyed the fair... I would have to agree... but it was really the carni's that destroyed the fair... Last year the fair drew tons of people but the city still lost money because the carnival rides, tents, and booths were so expensive.

We should start a thred with suggestions for next years Fair St. Louis.

Metros new line - the CC line, goes along forest park parkway then turns and uses old rail road tracks ... how far do those tracks/ the associated row actually go south? north? Or have we already nearly exhausted most of the ROW that was available? What other major sections of track in the metro area are available for possible metro expansion (close or not to existing system). If there is an existing track out in, say, Chesterfield, that could be used... should we make that into a separate non - connected like with the intention of eventually connecting the two lines?

The ROW that cross county uses extends about as far north as St Charles Rock Road. After that it looks like much of it has been taken for industrial uses. Cross County uses it all the way to the southern end. As far as other abandoned ROW's in St Louis:



1. Union Pacific ROW roughly paralleling Page out to westport. This is a planned Metrolink corridor.

2. Union Pacific ROW through the city from the mill creek valley to river Des Peres. This is also a planned Metrolink corridor. Past river Des Peres this ROW is now the popular Grant's Trail.



There are more in the area that I'm not as sure about including many in the metro east. There is still plenty or abandoned ROW available, although some of it is falling into private developers hands - There was also more abandoned UP ROW that ran from roughly Deer Creek park (Near the coming Sunnen Park Station) north past Manchester, past the old Rock Hill quarry, continuing NW to where Clayton and 40 meet. From there it turned more westerly roughly paralleling Conway out to roughly Ladue and Ballas Rds. After that its difficult to tell where it went. Unfortunately most of it has been taken by either commercial or residential development. It would have made a perfect route to West County.