urbanSTL

matguy70 wrote:So now, St. Louisan's, in general, EXPECT or are use to independent rail. Selling Metro going down a street like a streetcar in St. Louis isn't going to be an easy task either. St. Louisans take rail and expect it to be fast... this will not be the case if Metro builds at grade on any of the new lines. If we cannot accomplish getting Metro elevated, right away, or in subways on future lines... I think that the idea of modern streetcars (like Toronto has) linking into existing Metro lines will be better and more accepted and cheaper to operate.

I agree.



1. I'd like to see short street cars T into metro link in places like Grand Center, Forest Park, Clayton, Central West End, Webster Groves. Any kind of cheap streetcar rail is much more comfortable, accessible, fun, and eco-friendly than tire systems. And aren't they cheaper in the long run than burning gas when you consider all costs -- pavement, gas, air polutions, etc.?



2. How cheap would it be to run a MetroLink line on dedicated ight-of-way right down the middle or I-44 all the way out to Sunset or Fenton? You could almost convert one of the existing fast lanes, since traffic is not that heavy on I-44. Then you could use all existing underpasses and just build the rails and a few stations along the route.



In fact, why isn't MODOT designing all the new I-64 overpasses with a narrow metro-link slot right down the middle for future expansion?

JMedwick wrote:^ Perhaps that is why the news on the CMT site is important:

New alternative emerges in Northside/Southside MetroLink Study

8/11/06

Work progresses on the Northside/Southside MetroLink expansion program. A new alternative has emerged on the Southside route…an alignment that would leave downtown on 14th, go west on Choteau to Jefferson. The alignment would then take Jefferson South to I-55. The presumption would be that at that point the alignment would follow I-55 to South County, although the county portion is not a part of this study.

Maybe someone like southslider would know more, but with MODOT clearly working down the region's highways rebuilding them, 40 is planned and 70 is done. Would 55 be the next highway for a rebuild? Would Metro consider working with MODOT to get the line done (and infuriate west county folks at the same time)?

I don't think 55 needs a rebuild for a long while. They redid the part from Reavis Barracks, through the 270 interchange and all the way down to Imperial. The only thing I've read about is expanding to 3 or 4 lanes each way all the way from Highway M down to Highway 61.



(Though in my dream world I-55 would cross the river south of the brewery and Soulard would no longer be cut off from the rest of the city.)

Got a question for anyone who knows.



I'm thinking about taking the Metrolink from the new Shrewsbury station to the ballpark for tonight's gam. I was on the Metro St. Louis website, and according to their schedule there's a train that leaves the Shrewsbury station every 10 minutes until 9 PM. However, after 9 the trains only come and go every 30 minutes.



I thought Metro was supposed to have extra trains for game nights. Do they, and this is just not on the schedule, will I have to wait possibly 20+ minutes after the game's over?



Thanks,



-RBB

dweebe wrote:Hopefully they'll also get off their asses and change the signs at "Civic Center" station since they still say "Kiel Center".

It serves not only kiel, but also city hall, civil courts, the post office etc are all very close -- civic center seems (in my opinion) to be a good title - unless the Blues win the Stanley Cup-- then we could change it to "Hockey Station" or "Saavis Station".... since thats what MOST people who use that station use it for.

Gary K asked:

In fact, why isn't MODOT designing all the new I-64 overpasses with a narrow metro-link slot right down the middle for future expansion?

This has come up several times before in other MetroLink posts. But again, highway-running transit lines are great in speed but usually fail to serve destinations. That's because land uses about highways are overwhelmingly auto-oriented and transit patrons are pedestrians, even if parking at one end of their trip. Just look at the Brentwood I-64 station on the new Cross County line and see how little is in walking distance other than parking. It's much better to have a balance of park'n'ride stations AND walkable activity centers, like downtown Clayton, which isn't immediately along 40, then build an entire line of only park'n'ride lots.



Ultimately, MODOT doesn't have to leave room for MetroLink to West County because another viable alternative west already exists. Regional leaders already decided back in 2000 that the future route west would be better served in a more northern route to Westport at Page and I-270 from Clayton with possible extensions from there to St. Charles and/or Chesterfield. Quite simply, University City, Olivette, Overland, Creve Coeur and Maryland Heights all along the Daniel Boone alignment from Clayton to Westport have much better population and employment density than mostly large-lot single-family Ladue and Frontenac along Highway 40. And think about it-- Highway 40 isn't busy east of Ballas due to people traveling to destinations immediately along the highway. And even when there are some destinations fairly close to the highway, like St. John's Mercy, the environment is unfortunately still not very walkable.

Can people who took pictures/video of the new metrolink extension post here? It would be great to see more of the tunnel, stations, artwork, etc., as well as the surrounding area.

tbspqr wrote:

dweebe wrote:Hopefully they'll also get off their asses and change the signs at "Civic Center" station since they still say "Kiel Center".

It serves not only kiel, but also city hall, civil courts, the post office etc are all very close -- civic center seems (in my opinion) to be a good title - unless the Blues win the Stanley Cup-- then we could change it to "Hockey Station" or "Saavis Station".... since thats what MOST people who use that station use it for.

It has been said by many at Savvis that the city will never change things like that. Notice that the sign over the parking garage next door to Savvis still reads Kiel Center Garage. I guess their theory is that until Company X buys the rights to the garage as well as the building next door it will always be Kiel Center Garage.

I took a bunch from the train on Sunday, but I am going to do an extensive tour tommorrow since I have no classes.

Careful what pictures you take. You wouldn't want to give the terrorists too much information now, would you?

light rail vs. heavy rail

Light rail can actually usually be faster than heavy rail.



Light rail is powered from above wires.

Heavy rail is powered from a third rail at the track.

Mill204 wrote:Careful what pictures you take. You wouldn't want to give the terrorists too much information now, would you?

I saw that, and just don't believe it. Metro Service Volunteer has posted all sorts of goofy stuff on that forum, and doesn't seem like a credible source. I've never had any problems in the past, or on Sunday



I also have a legal right to be taking the pictures untill asked to stop. I have yet to find any official policy anywhere. http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=2033

That IS correct...

I meant to say Heavy Rail is a little faster... thanks for the clarification.

Had to put off my tour till next week sometime. Got stuck trying to get into a grad level class.

I think he may have been talking about the word censor. I know what word it is though. And I agree somewhat about the signage. That is one area that could be improved.

Basically I mean the current signage doesn't say "big city" to me-- instead it seems like Metro is going for a "cutsie" image which is both cheesy and hard to read...

Not sure if I agree. "big City" looking? I didn't even notice until you brought it up actually.

The signage is on the same type of partitions at all Metro stations. I also do not think the top headers are final. If you look closely, they are covered with a sticker ride now - the entire top of the brackets. Same goes for the new subway stations big signs on the station platforms. It looks like Metro did not get the install done or not "in" to be done. The signage is only on the stations south of Forsyth which you are referring too. But again, I don't think it really looks bad or "cutsie" in your words.

matguy70 wrote:

light rail vs. heavy rail

Light rail can actually usually be faster than heavy rail.



Light rail is powered from above wires.

Heavy rail is powered from a third rail at the track.

Heavy rail is not always powered by a third rail, either. It can be powered by overhead wires. The Metra lines to South Chicago/Indiana are one example and I think there are some commuter lines in NYC and Boston as well. In reality, MetroLink does not meet some of the criteria usually given in a definition of a "light rail" transit system. It is kind of hybrid, the cars are lighter and have lower speed and capacity, but it travels on its own dedicated right-of-way, which seems to be oft-cited as a charactersitic of a "heavy rail" system.

To elaborate on jlblues' statement, almost all of Europe's heavy rail system is powered by overhead lines, both freight and commuter rail. I'm not sure about the rest of Europe, but being from Switzerland I don't know of any 3rd rail system whatsoever. In another perspective, I now live in Chicago where the "L" lightrail system is entirely on 3rd rail. In my opinion the 3rd rail design should be completely abandond due to the increased danger to workers and passengers in case of emergency. There are roughly 10 deaths a year on the "L" just from passengers falling off the platforms and landing on the electrified tracks.

then we could change it to "Hockey Station" or "Saavis Station"....

...or Scott Station