I wonder what the likelihood of running trains later at night, since there have been times I've wanted to stay downtown after a Cards game and have a few drinks at Paddy O's but had to leave early to catch the train.
^ And in some ways, there is no better example than the current talk of a new MVC HQ along Clark near Savis. Here is a street frontage strip along Clark, across the street from Savis, down the street from Union Station, and adjacent to the city's new transportation center.
Or better yet, the block across 8th street from the new stadium.
In each case, Metro should be leading the charge to make the best use of their land.
Or better yet, the block across 8th street from the new stadium.
In each case, Metro should be leading the charge to make the best use of their land.
trent wrote:I wonder what the likelihood of running trains later at night, since there have been times I've wanted to stay downtown after a Cards game and have a few drinks at Paddy O's but had to leave early to catch the train.
There used to be a shuttle that ran from Washington University to downtown on Friday and Saturday nights a couple years ago. Maybe there still is. The few times I saw it, it was packed. I remember thinking how unfortunate it was that, even once they complete the new line, with two stops right on campus, such a shuttle would still be necessary, since MetroLink stops running at 12:30 or so. What college student is going to take MetroLink downtown knowing they will have to either come home at midnight or spend $25 for a cab? Imagine how much this might cut down on drunk driving? Anyone who has driven on Hwy. 40/64 between 1 AM and 3:30 AM on a weekend, knows what I am talking about...
I think Metro would be surprised how many riders they would get if they ran to 2:30 AM or so, Friday through Sunday morning. It is not like you'd have to run trains every ten minutes either. If you just ran the train at 20 to 30 minute intervals, I would bet you would get enough riders to break even, or at least, achieve the same level of loss Metro does during the day...
From the News Democrat
- And the Map is my own.
![]()
Metro begins Cross County Extension
Rides across the eight-mile trek start Saturday
BY MIKE FITZGERALD
News-Democrat
Is light-rail worth it? Depends on who's talking
MetroLink's new route and what it means for you
ST. LOUIS -
Get ready. MetroLink is set to start a new era this Saturday.
That's when the public gets its first peek at the eight-mile Cross County Extension that stretches from Forest Park to Shrewsbury, Mo.
But consider yourself warned. The new extension means that for the first time it'll be possible for you to board a train going the wrong way.
For 13 years the light-rail system has been as simple to figure out as a train circuit around a Christmas tree: an out-and-back route along 38 miles of parallel track that, in its latest configuration, links Scott Air Force Base to Lambert-St. Louis International Airport.
But on Saturday the opening of the light rail extension splits what had been one rail circuit into two:
• The first line will continue to run between Shiloh-Scott Air Force Base and Lambert-St. Louis Airport.
• The second line will run between Emerson Park in East St. Louis and Shrewsbury, Mo.
The bottom line for you: Illinois passengers who wish to ride the Shrewsbury branch will need to transfer at a stop between Emerson Park and Forest Park.
They must wait in this zone for the correct train, which will display its final destination -- Lambert or Shrewsbury -- above the windshield on each end of the train, and on the sides of each car.
"Shrewsbury-bound trains begin at Emerson Park," said Dianne Williams, a spokeswoman for Metro, the agency that oversees MetroLink. "And if they want to go to Shrewsbury, they transfer between Emerson Park and Forest Park."
Conversely, passengers who start in Shrewsbury and who wish to travel to a stop east of Emerson Park must transfer between Forest Park and Emerson Park.
The nine-stop Shrewsbury extension will carry riders to Clayton, the Galleria mall in Richmond Heights and to Maplewood, for many years a blue-collar bastion but today a shopping Mecca full of big-box stores and suddenly "hot" neighborhoods.
The new rail line winds up in the leafy suburbs of Shrewsbury, near Interstate 44, where riders will find an 800-car parking lot.
The Cross County Extension could hardly be opening at a better time, according to MetroLink riders from the metro-east, who cite soaring gasoline prices and delays caused by repairs on the Poplar Street Bridge.
"I'm really looking forward to it," said Mike Veith, who for more than 13 years has relied on a combination of shuttle buses and MetroLink trains to carry him from his Edwardsville home to his job at Washington University as an electron microscope specialist.
Because the extension swings right by the university, Veith estimated it will shave at least 20 minutes off each end of his commute. "That's a big thing," he said.
Not everyone is cheering.
Susan Steele of Belleville said the reconfiguration of MetroBus routes caused by the Cross County Extension could add up to 30 minutes each way to her commute to the hospital in West St. Louis County where she works as security director.
"I think it's going to be more cumbersome to rely on it," Steele said. "But I'll give it a try."
Rail problems
Construction on the Cross County Extension began in the spring of 2003. Its eventual price tag: $676 million, including nearly $130 million in overruns -- a mess that led Larry Salci, Metro's CEO, to fire the project's management-and-design team in August 2004. Metro assumed direct management of the project from then on.
"The problem basically was the design work they did was late and it was incomplete," Salci said.
Also in August 2004, Metro filed a lawsuit in St. Louis County Circuit Court to recover costs connected to the project overruns and delays.
In court papers, Metro accuses the collaborative -- which consists of Kwame Building Group; Parsons, Brinckerhoff; STV; and Jacobs Civil -- of fraud. The collaborative responded with a lawsuit of its own, arguing that Metro still owes its members $17 million. A trial over the lawsuit is scheduled to begin Jan. 8.
The cost of building the Shrewsbury extension is being paid for by St. Louis and St. Louis County taxpayers. In 1994, they approved the quarter-cent sales tax that's paying back $550 million in bonds that were sold to pay for the project's construction.
The Shrewsbury branch has proven the most costly and problematic leg of the entire MetroLink system.
Its $676 million price tag adds up to nearly twice the $339 million cost of building the 17.4-mile extension between East St. Louis and the SWIC campus that opened in May 2001.
To put it in another context, the Shrewsbury extension cost $84.5 million per mile to build. In contrast, the previous 38 miles of track and station running across Illinois and Missouri cost $20 million per mile, or a total of $765 million.
Most of the Shrewsbury extension's high cost owes to the fact it is the only leg of the system not built on an abandoned rail right-of-way. In addition, it was built in some of St. Louis County's oldest and most populous neighborhoods, requiring extensive use of tunnels, the closure of busy roads and the rerouting of utilities.
cont...
http://www.belleville.com/mld/belleville/15318286.htm
- And the Map is my own.
Metro begins Cross County Extension
Rides across the eight-mile trek start Saturday
BY MIKE FITZGERALD
News-Democrat
Is light-rail worth it? Depends on who's talking
MetroLink's new route and what it means for you
ST. LOUIS -
Get ready. MetroLink is set to start a new era this Saturday.
That's when the public gets its first peek at the eight-mile Cross County Extension that stretches from Forest Park to Shrewsbury, Mo.
But consider yourself warned. The new extension means that for the first time it'll be possible for you to board a train going the wrong way.
For 13 years the light-rail system has been as simple to figure out as a train circuit around a Christmas tree: an out-and-back route along 38 miles of parallel track that, in its latest configuration, links Scott Air Force Base to Lambert-St. Louis International Airport.
But on Saturday the opening of the light rail extension splits what had been one rail circuit into two:
• The first line will continue to run between Shiloh-Scott Air Force Base and Lambert-St. Louis Airport.
• The second line will run between Emerson Park in East St. Louis and Shrewsbury, Mo.
The bottom line for you: Illinois passengers who wish to ride the Shrewsbury branch will need to transfer at a stop between Emerson Park and Forest Park.
They must wait in this zone for the correct train, which will display its final destination -- Lambert or Shrewsbury -- above the windshield on each end of the train, and on the sides of each car.
"Shrewsbury-bound trains begin at Emerson Park," said Dianne Williams, a spokeswoman for Metro, the agency that oversees MetroLink. "And if they want to go to Shrewsbury, they transfer between Emerson Park and Forest Park."
Conversely, passengers who start in Shrewsbury and who wish to travel to a stop east of Emerson Park must transfer between Forest Park and Emerson Park.
The nine-stop Shrewsbury extension will carry riders to Clayton, the Galleria mall in Richmond Heights and to Maplewood, for many years a blue-collar bastion but today a shopping Mecca full of big-box stores and suddenly "hot" neighborhoods.
The new rail line winds up in the leafy suburbs of Shrewsbury, near Interstate 44, where riders will find an 800-car parking lot.
The Cross County Extension could hardly be opening at a better time, according to MetroLink riders from the metro-east, who cite soaring gasoline prices and delays caused by repairs on the Poplar Street Bridge.
"I'm really looking forward to it," said Mike Veith, who for more than 13 years has relied on a combination of shuttle buses and MetroLink trains to carry him from his Edwardsville home to his job at Washington University as an electron microscope specialist.
Because the extension swings right by the university, Veith estimated it will shave at least 20 minutes off each end of his commute. "That's a big thing," he said.
Not everyone is cheering.
Susan Steele of Belleville said the reconfiguration of MetroBus routes caused by the Cross County Extension could add up to 30 minutes each way to her commute to the hospital in West St. Louis County where she works as security director.
"I think it's going to be more cumbersome to rely on it," Steele said. "But I'll give it a try."
Rail problems
Construction on the Cross County Extension began in the spring of 2003. Its eventual price tag: $676 million, including nearly $130 million in overruns -- a mess that led Larry Salci, Metro's CEO, to fire the project's management-and-design team in August 2004. Metro assumed direct management of the project from then on.
"The problem basically was the design work they did was late and it was incomplete," Salci said.
Also in August 2004, Metro filed a lawsuit in St. Louis County Circuit Court to recover costs connected to the project overruns and delays.
In court papers, Metro accuses the collaborative -- which consists of Kwame Building Group; Parsons, Brinckerhoff; STV; and Jacobs Civil -- of fraud. The collaborative responded with a lawsuit of its own, arguing that Metro still owes its members $17 million. A trial over the lawsuit is scheduled to begin Jan. 8.
The cost of building the Shrewsbury extension is being paid for by St. Louis and St. Louis County taxpayers. In 1994, they approved the quarter-cent sales tax that's paying back $550 million in bonds that were sold to pay for the project's construction.
The Shrewsbury branch has proven the most costly and problematic leg of the entire MetroLink system.
Its $676 million price tag adds up to nearly twice the $339 million cost of building the 17.4-mile extension between East St. Louis and the SWIC campus that opened in May 2001.
To put it in another context, the Shrewsbury extension cost $84.5 million per mile to build. In contrast, the previous 38 miles of track and station running across Illinois and Missouri cost $20 million per mile, or a total of $765 million.
Most of the Shrewsbury extension's high cost owes to the fact it is the only leg of the system not built on an abandoned rail right-of-way. In addition, it was built in some of St. Louis County's oldest and most populous neighborhoods, requiring extensive use of tunnels, the closure of busy roads and the rerouting of utilities.
cont...
http://www.belleville.com/mld/belleville/15318286.htm
This issue comes up all the time with younger persons. Weekday trains pullout onto the alignment around 3:30 am. If the last train left downtown at 2:30 pm, it wouldn't get to the end of the line and back to the yard until approximately 3:30 am.
That is essentially 24 hour service.
The department responsible for track maintenance and catenary repair need some time when they can install new track, repair insulators and conduct inspections without the power turned on.
With the new August 28th schedule, there will really only be about 2:00 hours when the power can be turned off. It also takes some time to power down and power up further reducing track time. Rail systems (responsible for track, signals, and power) really needs about 4 hours for maintenance. (midnight until about 4:00 am)
Now it is possible that Metro could operate late night service on Friday and Saturday, but not on other days. We are investigating parking trains at the terminal point at night to eliminate the pullout and turn in track time. For example, the first westbound train from Shiloh will depart at 4:17 am.
This might save about 60 minutes of track time (between the night time pullin and the early AM pullout. You have additional costs for security, driver relief and how to maintenance rechecks and cleaning.
I know there are many young persons interested in very late night trains, but there are some practical considerations that have to be resolved first.
That is essentially 24 hour service.
The department responsible for track maintenance and catenary repair need some time when they can install new track, repair insulators and conduct inspections without the power turned on.
With the new August 28th schedule, there will really only be about 2:00 hours when the power can be turned off. It also takes some time to power down and power up further reducing track time. Rail systems (responsible for track, signals, and power) really needs about 4 hours for maintenance. (midnight until about 4:00 am)
Now it is possible that Metro could operate late night service on Friday and Saturday, but not on other days. We are investigating parking trains at the terminal point at night to eliminate the pullout and turn in track time. For example, the first westbound train from Shiloh will depart at 4:17 am.
This might save about 60 minutes of track time (between the night time pullin and the early AM pullout. You have additional costs for security, driver relief and how to maintenance rechecks and cleaning.
I know there are many young persons interested in very late night trains, but there are some practical considerations that have to be resolved first.
Busdad wrote:If the last train left downtown at 2:30 am, it wouldn't get to the end of the line and back to the yard until approximately 3:30 am.
Umm...Why couldn't you...?
Nevermind.Busdad wrote:We are investigating parking trains at the terminal point at night to eliminate the pullout and turn in track time. This might save about 60 minutes of track time (between the night time pullin and the early AM pullout.
It is not just "young persons" you know, many of us 30 and even 40-somethings occasionally manage to stay out past midnight without turning into pumpkins.Busdad wrote:I know there are many young persons interested in very late night trains, but there are some practical considerations that have to be resolved first.
I know quite a few people in that age range that would consider taking MetroLink to go out for dinner and drinks, and/or gambling, if the train ran later. And, you shouldn't assume your late-night riders are all partiers either. Consider all of the people that work at bars, restaurants, hotels, the ballpark, etc. along the MetroLink line, that may not get off work until well after midnight, plus those working the late shifts at BJC and SLU hospitals and the casinos.
At the very least, I would consider running a shorter, late-night section on Fridays and Saturdays, whether that be say, just downtown, or preferably, between the Emerson Park and Clayton stations. The latter would at least connect the two largest universities with downtown and other entertainment areas. But perhaps more importantly, it would also connect most of the region's major hotel and convention facilities with most of its tourism/entertainment districts....And while I am fantasizing, a late night shuttle between Soulard and downtown would be nice.
- 25
This is perfect. I am going to enroll in the joint WashU/UMSL engineering program next January. And UMSL gives out free Metrolink passes. So I can transport between both campuses for free. And I can transport from the Borders at Brentwood to WashU! This is exciting!
cumulonimbus wrote:And I can transport from the Borders at Brentwood to WashU! This is exciting!
Yuck, that is not a very nice walk, whichever station you pick, Galleria or Eager Road. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if a Barnes & Noble pops up somewhere along Brentwood or Eager, closer to one of the Metro stations. Speaking of which, anyone know what is going into the old Ultimate Electronics space?
- 63
jlblues wrote:Speaking of which, anyone know what is going into the old Ultimate Electronics space?
I've seen "Office Max coming soon" signs and "15,000 sq ft for lease" signs. So maybe both.
jlblues wrote:cumulonimbus wrote:And I can transport from the Borders at Brentwood to WashU! This is exciting!
Yuck, that is not a very nice walk, whichever station you pick, Galleria or Eager Road.
That entire area is not pedestrian friendly, which always made me wonder why they did not include some type of walkway improvement for that entire area. Walking from Borders to anywhere is, to say the least, intimidating.
- 8,924
I'm flying to Dallas for Labor day weekend. I'm gonna ride the link from clayton all the way to the airport...I've never done that before... so get excited for me...
Busdad:
The new "2 WUSTL Red" bus that replaces the Wash U Shuttle Bus: will those be full BiState buses or the current University owned shuttles rebadged? Because I don't think a full size bus will be able to make it through the DeMun neighborhood.
Moving and delivery trucks get stuck all the time in our neighborhood.
(edited for spelling)
The new "2 WUSTL Red" bus that replaces the Wash U Shuttle Bus: will those be full BiState buses or the current University owned shuttles rebadged? Because I don't think a full size bus will be able to make it through the DeMun neighborhood.
Moving and delivery trucks get stuck all the time in our neighborhood.
(edited for spelling)
Metro will use 30 foot transit buses.
Wash U used 28 or 29 foot coach on chassis vehicles. Metro's vehicles are 102 inches wide. Wash U vehicles are slightly narrower and may not be as high.
A full sized Metro bus is 40 feet in length. We also own 35 foot buses. We will exclusively use 30 foot buses.
We are running training buses through Demun and the Eastgate-Westgate area of UCity (equally tight) . I am sure we will get stuck since even cars get stuck behind double parked cars and people who stick their cars on the the end of the corners. Wash U also got stuck periodically. The 30 footers seem to work ok under the normal tight conditions.
Wash U used 28 or 29 foot coach on chassis vehicles. Metro's vehicles are 102 inches wide. Wash U vehicles are slightly narrower and may not be as high.
A full sized Metro bus is 40 feet in length. We also own 35 foot buses. We will exclusively use 30 foot buses.
We are running training buses through Demun and the Eastgate-Westgate area of UCity (equally tight) . I am sure we will get stuck since even cars get stuck behind double parked cars and people who stick their cars on the the end of the corners. Wash U also got stuck periodically. The 30 footers seem to work ok under the normal tight conditions.
- 835
Check out this St. Louis pic from the early '80s. I LOVE the old Bi-State buses and especially their hardcore urban color scheme. I think the color scheme of our buses today is kind of pansy and uninspired. Imagine how cool the MetroLink trains would look if they used these colors....
Old school rock:
![]()
And no offense to anyone, but I think the name "Metro" is way overused. It seems like every city uses Metro. But there's only one...
![]()
I know I'm a kvetch, but I think I'm so excited about the MetroLink expansion that I've ironically become cynical.
CONGRATULATIONS, METROLINK!
Old school rock:
And no offense to anyone, but I think the name "Metro" is way overused. It seems like every city uses Metro. But there's only one...
I know I'm a kvetch, but I think I'm so excited about the MetroLink expansion that I've ironically become cynical.
CONGRATULATIONS, METROLINK!
What is that behind the bus, it almost looks like - no, it couldn't be - a retail store? Downtown!?! And, it looks like there might even be more than one! 
Passengers suffer minor injuries in MetroLink accident (PD)
According to the article, and eastbound train from the Forest Park station caught a support line, bringing it down, and shattering the safety glass. That's my understanding of what happened from the article, which was pretty vague. This is a horrible thing to have happen just four days from the opening of the new line (well, it's a horrible thing to happen at any time). This won't delay the opening at all, will it?
According to the article, and eastbound train from the Forest Park station caught a support line, bringing it down, and shattering the safety glass. That's my understanding of what happened from the article, which was pretty vague. This is a horrible thing to have happen just four days from the opening of the new line (well, it's a horrible thing to happen at any time). This won't delay the opening at all, will it?
Jax wrote:Passengers suffer minor injuries in MetroLink accident (PD)
According to the article, and eastbound train from the Forest Park station caught a support line, bringing it down, and shattering the safety glass. That's my understanding of what happened from the article, which was pretty vague. This is a horrible thing to have happen just four days from the opening of the new line (well, it's a horrible thing to happen at any time). This won't delay the opening at all, will it?
Interesting. I saw the after-effects last night driving by on the FPP around 10:30pm. There was one train sitting there with a bunch of passengers and about 3 or 4 support trucks messing with the line.
BTW: what's up with the Forest Park Parkway going down from three lanes to one right at DeBalivere? The two through lanes are closed and cement bloackaded off leaving only the left turn lane.
Where was that picture taken? Is that Washington where the convention center sits now? Dillards Building in the back/right? Is this st. louis? How did we ever lose this much activity? depressing.
Boy, that photo's a real puzzler! I can't figure it out. Definately not Wash. Av. Maybe it's over in Belleville or something?
Woolworth's was located at 6th & Locust. In regards to the Woolworth building, it is now a parking garage.JCity wrote:Where was that picture taken? Is that Washington where the convention center sits now? Dillards Building in the back/right? Is this st. louis? How did we ever lose this much activity? depressing.
Barket Realty and St. Louis Parking Company have converted the former Woolworth Building at 400 N. 6th Street into a parking garage. The new space contains 200 spaces that have been reserved by adjacent buildings. The site was previously empty during most of the 1990's.
- 835
^Yep. That's our beloved downtown St. Louis when it was built for people, not cars. That wasn't even that long ago either.
- 8,924
suicide metrolinker...
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument
crazy nut or conspiracy
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument
crazy nut or conspiracy
- 8,924
appraisalman wrote:Conspiracy? What are you implying?
nothing really... did she jump in front of the train or was she pushed...