This was a big, nasty thug. Who knows what he had: a gun, a knife? He could have been high, but he was on a rampage.
sounds like a nightmare. I doubt I would have done much to be honest.
sounds like a nightmare. I doubt I would have done much to be honest.
bprop wrote:EDIT to say this a little nicer than I originally did.
First, you weren't there. Had you bothered to read months ago when this was posted, you would have seen that we did "calm the situation". This was a big, nasty thug. Who knows what he had: a gun, a knife? He could have been high, but he was on a rampage. Furthermore, I was sleeping when the guy first got thrown to the ground, so it's not like I - or anyone else - could have prevented that.
After I got out of the seat next to the window (over a lady sitting next to me), two others and I did get the guy off the victim. Everyone else was sitting there, terrified that this coked up/messed up guy was going nuts. When I went to tell the driver to stop at the next stop, the guy started getting kicked again. All of this happened in maybe 30 seconds. I think you or any other tough guy would have been hard-pressed to take control of the situation.
Didn't mean to put you on the defense. Was merely questioning the use of the "emergency button" vs. physically detaining someone. Furthermore, the case for physically detaining someone becomes stronger had the person been carrying a gun or knife.
Looks as though the emergency button is used mainly to alert the driver, who has access to a two way radio and can call for help to meet the train at the next stop.
http://www.metrostlouis.org/GettingStar ... tyFAQs.asp
My initial point: the Emergency Button is totally useless, sort of like the oxygen masks that fall from the ceilings of airplanes. In this instance, pushing the emergency button and telling the driver of the train did nothing. Why would it do anything at all? The driver is not going to stop the train because someone is having an emergency, nor does said driver have the magic ability to do anything you as a rider couldn't do yourself - this includes calling the police to meet you at the next stop. Again, I wasn't trying to attack your dude-dom, I was merely pointing out the fact to future riders that pushing an emergency button and waiting for someone else to handle the problem is asinine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
Sidebar: I did read your original post before my initial response.[/url]
I didn't push the emergency button. A woman who was pinned between the wall and attacker pushed it in our car. Perhaps she should have taken the attacker out instead.
So you agree? I'm confused. You keep stating what you did and did not do. I'm simply saying the emergency button is useless - regardless if you, the Hamburglar, Obama, Alvin, any of the other Chipmunks or I push the thing.
Maybe she felt that alerting the driver was all she could do. She probably didn't have access to Wikipedia.
why are you avoiding the topic?
Do you feel the emergency button, the thought of the train operator intervening when an emergency situation is unfolding on the link, or the promised presence of a security guard is enough for a) someone to feel safe on the Metrolink, or b) justify not personally intervening in an emergency situation?
Do you feel the emergency button, the thought of the train operator intervening when an emergency situation is unfolding on the link, or the promised presence of a security guard is enough for a) someone to feel safe on the Metrolink, or b) justify not personally intervening in an emergency situation?
I do not ride the metro that much anymore....how often does stuff like this happen? For the most part (when I ride) folks keep to themselves. After reading this thread you would swear this stuff happens everyday.
I have rarely seen a fight, maybe three times in the past three years.
There are numerous occasions, though, where a very loud, unruly bunch of school-age kids gets on. I'm guessing it happens every day, but you have to be riding when school gets out in order to see it.
Other than screaming (literally), jumping, swinging from the bars, play fighting/kicking, and so on, there's nothing violent about it. Some passengers do note how unnerving it is, usually after the kids depart all at once.
There are numerous occasions, though, where a very loud, unruly bunch of school-age kids gets on. I'm guessing it happens every day, but you have to be riding when school gets out in order to see it.
Other than screaming (literally), jumping, swinging from the bars, play fighting/kicking, and so on, there's nothing violent about it. Some passengers do note how unnerving it is, usually after the kids depart all at once.
- 923
bprop wrote:I have rarely seen a fight, maybe three times in the past three years.
3 times? I've been riding public transport in Melbourne for 3 years and haven't seen a single fight on the train, tram, or bus. Christ, if I had a "yearly fight on train", I'd never ride the damn thing. People have the right to feel safe on PT. When I was in SF there were two bums screaming at each other, and another near-stabbing on another bus - IN THE SPAN OF A WEEK. Suffice it to say, i'll never ride the bus in San Fran again if I don't have to. Piece of mind is worth more to me than a few bucks.
^I hear you, but cuz u didn't see doesn't mean it never happened
cheers,
cheers,
- 923
^ had a hard time with the double negative -
True, it does happen. Some dude got stabbed on my train line not too long ago, totally at random. Girls get groped by weird immigrants who think that behavior is acceptabel. It happens.
My point is that in 3 years of taking public transport during all hours of the day and all days of the week, I haven't seen or experienced one single incident, and bprop has seen it happen 3 times and says its "rare". For me, annual violence on my commute would be too much for me to deal with.
In our city, you're more likely to get assaulted by a cabbie than you are a fellow rider.
True, it does happen. Some dude got stabbed on my train line not too long ago, totally at random. Girls get groped by weird immigrants who think that behavior is acceptabel. It happens.
My point is that in 3 years of taking public transport during all hours of the day and all days of the week, I haven't seen or experienced one single incident, and bprop has seen it happen 3 times and says its "rare". For me, annual violence on my commute would be too much for me to deal with.
In our city, you're more likely to get assaulted by a cabbie than you are a fellow rider.
Sorry, I misspoke. I meant to say 3 times in 9 years (most riding the buses and the remainder riding metrolink). I don't know where 3 came from. In fact, I can only remember two, but I threw 3 out there to be safe. One was this incident, and the other was when a guy argued with his girlfriend and they came to blows -- the bus driver literally threw him off.
just to reiterate, things happen whether we see, hear, or choose to believe. for wat its worth I feel safe on the metro...no worries
I'm a big proponent of St. Louis. I came back from the west coast because I missed my family and the city. There are nuances here u just can't find elsewhere. But the crime on metrolink is just making this so tough. We sugar coat it but we really have to do something. No one will come if we don't step up and do something. This is just a sample of something that seems to happen 1x / month or maybe every 2 months. Still, if one can't feel safe using the public transportation, it is just that much harder. I've lived in the bay, I've lived in chicago. Yes they have their bad pockets too, but I always felt I could use the public transportation system. I did avoid getting off at Macarthur in the bay, and didn't go to bad areas in teh south side, but Grand stop is in the UNIVERSITY stop. I am not using the metrolink to this stop anymore. I am only taking teh bus, but people who would even begin to consider using public transpotation and see this message, will not even begin to do so. Sorry for the long rant:
To: Saint Louis University Students, Faculty and Staff
At approximately 4:45 p.m. Wednesday, July 2, a male Saint Louis University employee was on the upper level of the Grand Boulevard MetroLink Station when an unknown suspect approached him from behind and grabbed his arms while another unknown suspect stole his backpack.
Both suspects fled the scene in an unknown direction, and the SLU employee was not injured during the incident.
The Department of Public Safety has stepped up patrols in the area and is assisting the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department in the investigation of the incident.
The suspects are described as two black males. One suspect was additionally described as having a dark complexion, unshaven with unkempt hair and wearing a red-striped shirt.
To keep you informed, the Department of Public Safety is providing this information to the University community.
To: Saint Louis University Students, Faculty and Staff
At approximately 4:45 p.m. Wednesday, July 2, a male Saint Louis University employee was on the upper level of the Grand Boulevard MetroLink Station when an unknown suspect approached him from behind and grabbed his arms while another unknown suspect stole his backpack.
Both suspects fled the scene in an unknown direction, and the SLU employee was not injured during the incident.
The Department of Public Safety has stepped up patrols in the area and is assisting the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department in the investigation of the incident.
The suspects are described as two black males. One suspect was additionally described as having a dark complexion, unshaven with unkempt hair and wearing a red-striped shirt.
To keep you informed, the Department of Public Safety is providing this information to the University community.
- 120
Again, I have to ask. Why would it be so bad if a person with a concealed carry license was allowed to board the train with a gun? It's not like the no gun sign is going to prevent any criminals getting on with weapons? Why am I as a law-abiding citizen have to have my rights limited? I am basically being forbidden from riding PT if I want to feel safe and protected (and no matter how often these incidents happen, I still feel safer knowing I have some ability to defend myself against armed criminals).
Uh, how is that possible? Unless they went down the stairs they would have had to either go North or South. And if they went down the stairs, aren't there cameras on the platform, not to mention witnesses.Imos!!! wrote:Both suspects fled the scene in an unknown direction
Like the other poster said, they probably went North or South as this was happening on the upper level where there are never any security people. I get the sense that you don't believe me, and I hope that's not the case because I'll just continue to post the emails I get from campus security every time it happens. The thing that pisses me off is that it happens right in the middle of the day. Look, I know nothing is 100% but knowing now that there is a significant chance of getting screwed during RUSH hour has forced my decision.Uh, how is that possible?
^No, I'm not saying I don't believe you. I'm just saying that that statement makes no sense. If they fled along the Grand viaduct, they either went North or South. Soooo, did they blindfold the victim? If not, which way were they going the last time he saw them??? And I'm sure there were dozens of people on the platform and on the upper level, so how could not one of those people have seen which way they went?
Well, in the victims defense, if something REALLY bad just happened to you, you probably dont have the best sense of direction. I think the main thing going through your brain during a mugging is if youre going to get out of the situation alive. Not which way did the criminal go.
Grand station usually gets my vote for feeling most unsafe on the MO side, but I never really thought about the bus stop. Like jblues said, there are usually plenty of people up there and I usually believe in safety in numbers.
But the way this city has been lately, that seems to apply less and less.
Grand station usually gets my vote for feeling most unsafe on the MO side, but I never really thought about the bus stop. Like jblues said, there are usually plenty of people up there and I usually believe in safety in numbers.
But the way this city has been lately, that seems to apply less and less.
That is just pathetic. They took his backpack.TIABstl wrote:Well, in the victims defense, if something REALLY bad just happened to you, you probably dont have the best sense of direction. I think the main thing going through your brain during a mugging is if youre going to get out of the situation alive. Not which way did the criminal go.
They didn't beat him or rape him. I'm pretty sure the email would have mentioned that. If people are that weak, they might as well wear a target around their neck. And yes, I have been a victim of violent crime. In each case, the only things going through my mind were: a) can I gain the upper hand, b) can I get someone else's help or attention, c) call 911, and d) where did the criminals go and what can I do to help catch them? If more people were prepared, and paid attention to their surroundings, we'd be able to cut crime in half. Just like wolves, criminals prey on the slow and weak. There are some ways to remedy being physically slow and weak, most of which cost time and/or money, but anyone with a functional level of intelligence can avoid being mentally slow and weak.
geez, all he did was mug him/rip his backpack off! come on, that's a part of our gritty urban landscape..
what a joke. I wish the guy had a conceled carry license and was able to put a stop to these little vagrants right on the spot. I LOVE the no concealed weapons signs too btw. I'm waiting for the "no stealing backpacks" sign.
what a joke. I wish the guy had a conceled carry license and was able to put a stop to these little vagrants right on the spot. I LOVE the no concealed weapons signs too btw. I'm waiting for the "no stealing backpacks" sign.
jlblues wrote:
That is just pathetic. They took his backpack.
There are some ways to remedy being physically slow and weak, most of which cost time and/or money, but anyone with a functional level of intelligence can avoid being mentally slow and weak.
Amazing how the victim is criticized more so than the criminal.