urbanSTL

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Nov 19, 2021

dweebe wrote:So we're anti-turnstiles?

I think most of us in this forum are anti-turnstiles and believe transit should be free.

I'm generally against turnstiles in the Metrolink/light rail context. Although I don't think transit should be free. Those are two different issues that aren't shared by all.  

The fewer elevators and escalators (both of which Metro already struggles to keep operational), turnstiles, digital touch screens, and moving parts in general, the better. Just ticket machines, platforms, and trains, with security measures (namely ticket checkers, security guards, and police) efficiently allocated. Turnstiles seem wasteful - not providing significant additional safety or fare enforcement, while increasing costs and maintenance. Walling off stations like Sunnen, Swansea, JJK and Memorial Hospital seems particularly wasteful. 

I was in LA a month ago and walked right onto the Westwood/Rancho Park Station of the E Line. It opened 5 years ago and runs from Downtown to Santa Monica. No turnstiles, just a single entry point and signage saying it's a ticketed area, like Metrolink. 

I did like LA's system a lot, though when I rode the E Line there were officers performing ticket checks of people on the platform before they even got on the train.  

Not really sure where I fall (on the surface, I'm anti- more than pro-) but I think that most issues could be handled with better security training/different procedures, etc. On my every weekday commute, I see the same black and yellow wearing guards, and they seem more interested in boarding the trains at one stop only to scan the device at the back of the train with their smartphone, and then get off at the next stop...

I was contemplating how many, and for how many years $52m would buy us in just putting a ***** guard on every platform, but then realized they can't get deputized anyways.

Weird thing here is that the consultants who studied the security issue never suggested this as a solution because as they’ve done this many times they know it’s stilly for over the lane system that we have

Problem is all the people that ride it and don’t pay. I ride it every two weeks and at least once per ride someone is getting kicked out or they ask a few questions and let go (mostly kids).

I’m no expert but they can do like some hotels elevators that you scan your card and it opens.

I think and this is just my opinion that the people in yellow shirts won’t risk their lives for a passenger that didn’t pay. I’ve seen how some riders get violent specially mental health folks.

I’ve noticed how the Illinois side has more Cops and security than the Missouri side. Why and how? I have no clue.

At the end this turnstiles that they showed will not work it all and the region doesn’t have the money to redo the stops and create full turnstiles.

But we’ll see. Do you know if this is already approved?


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The problem with Metrolink is not people taking free rides, it’s poor land use around 80% of the stations that leads to less ridership.


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SeattleNative wrote:The problem with Metrolink is not people taking free rides, it’s poor land use around 80% of the stations that leads to less ridership.


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True!! No TODs whatsoever!


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addxb2 wrote: ↑

Nov 19, 2021

The rendering above shows the turnstile tech. It’s basically a piece of plexiglass that’ll swing open/close. Half of them will be shattered in the first year from jumpers or those that just push through.

Another reason it shouldn’t happen in the first place.

Not sure where I really fall on the issue. I don't think they are a bad thing to have but I also think the money could be used smarter. But why do you think half of them will be shattered in the first year? Do they get destroyed in other cities or do we just assume STL will be different than everywhere else? 

SeattleNative wrote: ↑

Nov 19, 2021

The problem with Metrolink is not people taking free rides, it’s poor land use around 80% of the stations that leads to less ridership.

I hope that the Expo and Hudson are hugely successful since they could then be used as proof that TOD will work here. We have Sunnen Station apartments, but to me, that's not true TOD. If all goes well, Debalivere could become a true, transit oriented street (if that makes sense). What I mean by this is high-density with multi-family buildings, shops, restaurants, and so on. Not only would this increase the walkability of the two neighborhoods that meet on Debaliviere, but it could become a destination of sorts. 

chriss752 wrote: ↑

Nov 20, 2021

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Nov 19, 2021

The ship has nearly sailed on turnstiles. Bi-State presented plan today. $52m, 2-year construction window.

$52 Million for turnstiles seems like an awful lot of money for just 38 stations. Is there a link to the full study/report?

It’s around $2m for the actual entrance and exit turnstiles.  The rest is other things.

Is the contingency typically this high for this sort of thing?

quincunx wrote: ↑

Nov 20, 2021

Is the contingency typically this high for this sort of thing?

It can start as high as 40% in the planning stage, generally it should be around 5% heading into the construction phase

$52M to appease the senescent musings of a man whose company is leaving regardless. Smdh

“At the time, consultants said there was not much correlation between fare evasion and serious crime.”

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 9e69c.html

For comparison purposes, $50 million could be used to employ about 40 full time staff at $60k a year for the next 20 years.

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Nov 19, 2021

dweebe wrote:So we're anti-turnstiles?

I think most of us in this forum are anti-turnstiles and believe transit should be free.

I think being anti-turnstile is logical. Thinking transit should be free is more of a political question i.e. I'm not going to dislike or distrust someone for disagreeing with me on it.

Even if the system was 100% sealed and secure, it will do absolutely nothing to change the image of public transit. White people will still see people that don't look, dress, and speak like them and they're going to be irrationally afraid. MetroLink doesn't have safety or fare evasion issues, which are two completely separate issues, by the way. The United States has a gun problem, Missouri has a highway expansion problem, and St. Louis has an absolutely tragic sprawl problem.

No no no I'm pretty sure we can solve gun violence by charging teenagers $2 to ride the train. It's so simple it can't not work.

StL Public Radio - Metro Transit plans to increase security to protect employees after bus driver shot

https://news.stlpublicradio.org/economy ... river-shot

^ they should put turnstiles on the buses. i think they stop bullets.

What nonsense. How's a Metro security guard driving down a bus route going to stop anything? Even actual police have little to no impact on preventing shootings.

Those drivers already get paid nothing. They got shot or shot at with some regularity, and they have to deal with all kinds of passengers who can't/won't pay.

Every time I've ridden a bus overseas the bus driver is not involved in fare collection. You just validate your fare card onboard. That type of setup would seem to make things safer for bus drivers. It seems like every third passenger here is giving the driver a sob story about why they can't pay.

I am so sick of the outsized responsibility that some place on Metro to combat our region's crime problem.