urbanSTL

Trololzilla wrote:

JJ Rivera wrote: ↑

Sep 13, 2021

dbInSouthCity wrote:I’m not even from this country

Me neither lol…


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Didn't you say you were from Puerto Rico? If so, that makes you as American as any of us.

NYC subway system is disgusting, to be honest. I grew up in NYC, and it's... pretty gross. But that's public transit in a lot of places, to be fair. 

Also, the turnstiles and the manned booth by them didn't deter anyone from going in without a ticket, either. Even the NYPD literally being on the platform did about diddily-squat.

We’re an unincorporated territory and we do not consider ourselves Americans. We have our own constitution and our own culture! That’s why we have our own olympic team!

Until we don’t stop been treated as second citizens and The Jones Act continues to kill our economy can’t be call an American! For God sakes we’re imposed a President as we can’t even vote on the island for who should represent us as President! Shoot our Congress representative can’t even vote on the floor it has to beg for help to other congressmen.

So no we’re not equal and we’re not Americans!
Whenever we stop been treated as an illegal colony then we can be call Americans!

Open a history book and the constitution its free!


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JJ Rivera wrote: ↑

Sep 14, 2021

Trololzilla wrote:

JJ Rivera wrote: ↑

Sep 13, 2021

Me neither lol…


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Didn't you say you were from Puerto Rico? If so, that makes you as American as any of us.

NYC subway system is disgusting, to be honest. I grew up in NYC, and it's... pretty gross. But that's public transit in a lot of places, to be fair. 

Also, the turnstiles and the manned booth by them didn't deter anyone from going in without a ticket, either. Even the NYPD literally being on the platform did about diddily-squat.

We’re an unincorporated territory and we do not consider ourselves Americans. We have our own constitution and our own culture! That’s why we have our own olympic team!

Until we don’t stop been treated as second citizens and The Jones Act continues to kill our economy can’t be call an American! For God sakes we’re imposed a President as we can’t even vote on the island for who should represent us as President! Shoot our Congress representative can’t even vote on the floor it has to beg for help to other congressmen.

So no we’re not equal and we’re not Americans!
Whenever we stop been treated as an illegal colony then we can be call Americans!

Open a history book and the constitution its free!


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You could say much the same about Hawaiians, despite their statehood.

MarkHaversham wrote:

JJ Rivera wrote: ↑

Sep 14, 2021

Trololzilla wrote: Didn't you say you were from Puerto Rico? If so, that makes you as American as any of us.

NYC subway system is disgusting, to be honest. I grew up in NYC, and it's... pretty gross. But that's public transit in a lot of places, to be fair. 

Also, the turnstiles and the manned booth by them didn't deter anyone from going in without a ticket, either. Even the NYPD literally being on the platform did about diddily-squat.

We’re an unincorporated territory and we do not consider ourselves Americans. We have our own constitution and our own culture! That’s why we have our own olympic team!

Until we don’t stop been treated as second citizens and The Jones Act continues to kill our economy can’t be call an American! For God sakes we’re imposed a President as we can’t even vote on the island for who should represent us as President! Shoot our Congress representative can’t even vote on the floor it has to beg for help to other congressmen.

So no we’re not equal and we’re not Americans!
Whenever we stop been treated as an illegal colony then we can be call Americans!

Open a history book and the constitution its free!


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You could say much the same about Hawaiians, despite their statehood.

They have representation in Congress, vote for the President and have fully equal rights! Not the same! They’re a State of the Union we can’t become a State unless the constitution is amended which will never happen! A Spanish country as per the constitution is not equal.

Do ya’ll even take US history classes in school? Doesn’t sound like it.


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JJ Rivera wrote: ↑

Sep 14, 2021

MarkHaversham wrote:

JJ Rivera wrote: ↑

Sep 14, 2021

We’re an unincorporated territory and we do not consider ourselves Americans. We have our own constitution and our own culture! That’s why we have our own olympic team!

Until we don’t stop been treated as second citizens and The Jones Act continues to kill our economy can’t be call an American! For God sakes we’re imposed a President as we can’t even vote on the island for who should represent us as President! Shoot our Congress representative can’t even vote on the floor it has to beg for help to other congressmen.

So no we’re not equal and we’re not Americans!
Whenever we stop been treated as an illegal colony then we can be call Americans!

Open a history book and the constitution its free!


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You could say much the same about Hawaiians, despite their statehood.

They have representation in Congress, vote for the President and have fully equal rights! Not the same! They’re a State of the Union we can’t become a State unless the constitution is amended which will never happen! A Spanish country as per the constitution is not equal.

Do ya’ll even take US history classes in school? Doesn’t sound like it.


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True it's not exactly the same. However, the history of Hawaii has some parallels to Puerto Rico with respect to colonialism, and the ethnic Hawaiians often resent the colonizers. Look at the reaction to the Thirty Meter Telescope as an example. And the history of Hawaiian statehood has some parallels to Puerto Rico as well.

The ship has nearly sailed on turnstiles. Bi-State presented plan today. $52m, 2-year construction window.

Is this where the sales tax money is gong to go?

quincunx wrote:Is this where the sales tax money is gong to go?

No.

Private Donation: $13m
Bond Refinancing Security Allocation: $10m
BSD Capital & American Recovery: $16m
Illinois allocation credit: $13m


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sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Nov 19, 2021

Can’t wait until someone gets assaulted or shot in the “secure area” and then we’re right back where we started.  Only with more than 50 million fewer dollars to make actual meaningful changes to the system.

Then the pols throw up their hands, declare in non-fixable, and everyone drives as they're supposed to.

dweebe wrote:So we're anti-turnstiles?

I think most of us in this forum are anti-turnstiles and believe transit should be free.

I’m at the point where $52m is almost worth getting people to shut up about it.

There’s no basis for turnstiles improving safety or generating revenue via ticket enforcement. Light rail systems in Denver, Salt Lake, Minneapolis, and and Charlotte are open.

Lastly, it’s unfair to assume our transit agency should be free of crime or challenges while our interstates kill hundreds in our region every year without consequence to their operations.

dweebe wrote: ↑

Nov 19, 2021

So we're anti-turnstiles?

As a fare-collecting mechanism, no (well, at least for high volume, multi fare-zone systems where it makes sense).

As an unmanned device expected to provide security in the absence of humans doing their jobs, yes.

Isn't every single new-ish light rail system based on proof of payment? In addition to those mentioned above, Baltimore, Buffalo, Dallas, Houston, Jersey City, Los Angeles, Norfolk, Phoenix, Portland, Sacramento, San Diego, San Jose and Seattle have proof-of-payment systems on their light rail. Every one of them in the "modern" light rail segment on wikipedia is proof of payment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rai ... ted_States

Putting aside the cost, they're going to be broken half the time, like everything else in this city, and result in more hassles. Entrances will be temporarily or permanently closed for installation/maintenance/vandalism/cost savings in using fewer turnstiles.

There's nobody to enforce anything since the actual police on the Missouri side are AWOL. In Illinois it might work, since their police seem to have some measure of accountability.

I am pro turnstiles. But my concern is if they’re using the half turnstiles or ceiling to bottom full turnstiles. Half would be a waste of money as people can just jump them and full turnstiles will cost more than $50+M as a lot of the stops would need new infrastructure to make them work.

Is there a plan (pdf) or renderings available?

I guess I won’t agree or disagree until I see the plan and see the renderings.


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JJ Taino wrote: ↑

Nov 19, 2021

I am pro turnstiles. But my concern is if they’re using the half turnstiles or ceiling to bottom full turnstiles. Half would be a waste of money as people can just jump them and full turnstiles will cost more than $50+M as a lot of the stops would need new infrastructure to make them work.

Is there a plan (pdf) or renderings available?

I guess I won’t agree or disagree until I see the plan and see the renderings.


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They're pictured upthread. Definitely looks like you could crawl under. I'm not sure how resilient they'd be to someone shoving/shoulder-checking their way through.

The rendering above shows the turnstile tech. It’s basically a piece of plexiglass that’ll swing open/close. Half of them will be shattered in the first year from jumpers or those that just push through.

Another reason it shouldn’t happen in the first place.

eee123 wrote:

JJ Taino wrote: ↑

Nov 19, 2021

I am pro turnstiles. But my concern is if they’re using the half turnstiles or ceiling to bottom full turnstiles. Half would be a waste of money as people can just jump them and full turnstiles will cost more than $50+M as a lot of the stops would need new infrastructure to make them work.

Is there a plan (pdf) or renderings available?

I guess I won’t agree or disagree until I see the plan and see the renderings.


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They're pictured upthread. Definitely looks like you could crawl under. I'm not sure how resilient they'd be to someone shoving/shoulder-checking their way through.

Yeah! Thanks…
Those won’t do anything.

Don’t agree with these it all. Waste of money!


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JJ Taino wrote: ↑

Nov 19, 2021

I am pro turnstiles. But my concern is if they’re using the half turnstiles or ceiling to bottom full turnstiles. Half would be a waste of money as people can just jump them and full turnstiles will cost more than $50+M as a lot of the stops would need new infrastructure to make them work.

Is there a plan (pdf) or renderings available?

I guess I won’t agree or disagree until I see the plan and see the renderings.


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How do you let people in wheelchairs/scooters/with strollers through full turnstiles? Oh, you have a person there who opens a separate gate and watches. But then you just made the turnstile redundant.

bprop wrote:

JJ Taino wrote: ↑

Nov 19, 2021

I am pro turnstiles. But my concern is if they’re using the half turnstiles or ceiling to bottom full turnstiles. Half would be a waste of money as people can just jump them and full turnstiles will cost more than $50+M as a lot of the stops would need new infrastructure to make them work.

Is there a plan (pdf) or renderings available?

I guess I won’t agree or disagree until I see the plan and see the renderings.


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How do you let people in wheelchairs/scooters/with strollers through full turnstiles? Oh, you have a person there who opens a separate gate and watches. But then you just made the turnstile redundant.

Elevators. Or build ramps for them! There’s ways.


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Hmmm . . . I wonder if that $13 million private donation came from Centene?

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Nov 19, 2021

I think most of us in this forum are anti-turnstiles and believe transit should be free.

I’m at the point where $52m is almost worth getting people to shut up about it.

I'd be there with you, but after turnstiles are ineffective the same people will loudly insist on more money for metal detectors, then more money for strip-search booths, and so on until all the money is gone or nobody uses public transit. If you give a mouse a cookie it'll dehumanize a glass of milk, or something like that.