Metro improving amenities for its current customers

jmstokes · PostAug 13, 2010#262010-08-13T20:37+00:00

Simple, calculate how much of Metro's money is fares, and add that to the tax "burden." My wager is it comes out to not much.

A free system would likely heavily encourage ridership and use, though I don't know of anywhere that has it.

Champaign requires all students to buy a bus pass; it is ubiquitous and heavily, heavily used, even off campus. Getting to ride for free certainly encourages bus use there.

moorlander · PostAug 13, 2010#272010-08-13T21:04+00:00

The Count wrote:I would love to see the downtown free-ride zone between Laclede's Landing and Union Station back. But this time 24/7.

I don't think it would hurt Metro's revenue too much and it would make for easy getting around downtown for locals and visitors. With more people on the platforms it could enhance safety as well. It might even boost business at Union Station. Last but not least, it's good PR.

Really wish they had a weekend 3am train west towards Clayton.

Alex Ihnen · PostAug 14, 2010#282010-08-14T01:58+00:00

I did a blog post a while back about Metro going completely free. I think Metro fares were about $30M per year.

I managed to dig it up here:http://urbanstl.com/index.php?option=co ... &Itemid=11

DaronDierkes · PostAug 15, 2010#292010-08-15T02:22+00:00

Doug wrote:Couldn't this even be RFID so you don't even need to swipe?

Right, smart cards have RFID chips in them. Magnetic strips are yesterday's technology.

jennifer wrote: I like the idea of fare zones/paying more for longer distances. It makes sense to me but it would be hard to implement without smart cards. With them, who knows? I am not involved in that aspect of Metro at all, so I'm just speculating as a layperson, but I know they used that system in Portland.

I'd say most places I've been make you pay for the distance you travel. In Barcelona the subway has a zone system. You pay the lowest rate for moving inside a zone and more for every zone you cross. These zones are in something like concentric rings. I can't seem to find an online map of it though. When you buy a ticket, you touch a button on the screen for the number of zones you're crossing, and then it charges you accordingly. It seems like a complicated and unfair system. You might be going just one stop, but have to pay more for crossing a zone.

It makes far more sense to pay for the number of stops. In almost every major Asian city, there is a giant map in the subway station displaying the fares at various stops and a special, "You are Here" icon on the station you are in.

This is obviously Tokyo, note the red arrow.

This is Singapore, the big red dot indicates the picture was taken in Jurong. Note the giant fine for smoking. There's also a sign saying no durian allowed, but sadly there's no fine for that. (If you've ever had someone sit down next to you with a box full of the stuff, you'd want there to be a fine.)

In Bangkok, you select where you are going with this touch screen,

Here's a large resolution map in Taipei, and this is at the other end of the island in Kaohsiung

This sort of ticket purchasing is only necessary if you're buying a single-use ticket. Otherwise you just use your Octopus, EZ-Link, or whatever card.

doug · PostAug 22, 2010#302010-08-22T04:53+00:00

On the weekends Toronto makes their day passes free for essentially the entire family. This is for all of their services. This would be a good idea especially for tourists and people visiting the City from the County. We should also up the frequency of the Hampton 90 bus to better serve the Zoo, as well as fund a shuttle from the Delmar and Forest Park Stations at least during the summer. This will help alleviate parking issues in Forest Park. If there are funding problems then have a non-ZMD fee at the Zoo. Paint it something fun like the downtown "trolley." Have the driver dress like a train conductor.

PostAug 23, 2010#312010-08-23T20:01+00:00

Why are there no one ride passes at the airport and only two hour fares?

ben1040 · PostAug 24, 2010#322010-08-24T13:35+00:00

Doug wrote:Why are there no one ride passes at the airport and only two hour fares?

Also, why does it cost $3.75 for a two hour ticket from the airport? It's a dollar cheaper anywhere else, and honestly not everyone needs a 2 hour pass anyway.

They've done this with fares from the airport for at least a decade or so and it's really sort of stupid. It just says to visitors, "Hi, welcome to St Louis, now pay up," and they don't even realize they got screwed until they head back to the airport and pay less for their train ticket back to the airport.

And it rips off the locals who didn't know to buy a round trip fare when they left home to go to the airport, don't need a whole "2 hour pass," and thus have to pay nearly 2x the usual Metrolink fare on the way back.

jmstokes · PostAug 24, 2010#332010-08-24T14:17+00:00

I think it's stupid too. Ostensibly it's because they don't contribute taxes to the Metro and aren't paying their fare share. (see what I did there?)

It would be better to welcome these people, and their tax dollars, to the city. How much can it honestly earn anyway? How many fares do they sell a year from that station?

ben1040 · PostAug 24, 2010#342010-08-24T14:54+00:00

If squeezing money out of visitors is the goal, why not do so in a way that benefits the visitor?

Metro should line up something with the convention & visitors commission for conventions downtown. Convention organizers can buy a block of tickets in advance for their visitors (and bundle the price for a metrolink ticket into the registration fee; no visitor is going to notice a few bucks when they're dropping a few hundred to get in the door, and they're probably expensing it anyway).

The visitor could go to a CVC/Metro operated website where they can print out a branded Metrolink ticket for their conference, from their computer at home before they go. It would have travel directions from the airport on it, telling them what stop to get off at and where to walk when they get off the train. They would also sell advertising on it, to restaurants downtown or to trade show vendors at the convention ("come see ConsolidatedHugeCo's new product at booth #42"). Split the ad revenue, half goes into the CVC pool like hotel/rental car taxes do, half goes to Metro.

Print on the ticket the dates of the conference and that it's only good for one inbound trip before the conference and one outbound trip afterwards, so fare inspectors can still bounce people from the train for cheating.

PeterXCV · PostAug 24, 2010#352010-08-24T15:08+00:00

Well to me it seems to function a bit like a distance fare system, you have to pay more to travel from the Station furthest out, but it does seem to target tourists because the same thing isn't done at the Shiloh-Scott station.

doug · PostAug 24, 2010#362010-08-24T21:27+00:00

^Well I wanted to punch the damn meter after getting off my two delayed flights from Toronto, having no sleep the night before. It's entirely wrong that we screw people who chose to use public transit when they could easily get in their car. 1 dollar might not seem like a lot, however this is about fairness. If were not going to have the single ride pass here then other stations should not have it either.

quincunx · PostNov 19, 2010#372010-11-19T01:58+00:00

I noticed on a bus stop sign there is a spot for "Stop ID#" What is this for? Are we going to be able to text the number and get a reply saying when the next bus will be there?

jennifer · PostNov 23, 2010#382010-11-23T13:51+00:00

That's the idea (re: Stop ID). It will also be helpful for people who are calling for info to know their exact stop number. Each stop already has a number, they just have never posted them before. But with the bus stop consolidation program, we're trying to improve the routes. There's also a committee working on better signage with route information. Lots in the works, all part of the long-range plan.

rbeedee · PostDec 10, 2010#392010-12-10T02:15+00:00

Doug wrote:It's entirely wrong that we screw people who chose to use public transit when they could easily get in their car. 1 dollar might not seem like a lot, however this is about fairness.

I think charging a higher price at the airport is reasonable. "Screwing people" would be charging a price not commensurate with the value, or hiding the additional cost somehow, not charging a fair value for the service. It's still a bargain compared to parking prices or taxi fares. It's something that shouldn't be hidden on Metro's website (e.g., listing the regular prices on a visitor page, or something like that) so that visitor's aren't surprised by the difference, which would be unfair.

We should expect our transit agency to be fiscally responsible, and part of that could include pricing lower than usual in places or routes where transit use needs to be encouraged (for example, the discounted downtown trolley, where automobiles have the upper hand due to cheap and plentiful parking, reasonable uncongested roads, and tourists unfamiliar with the transit system), and higher in places where public transit has major advantages over other modes of transportation. Supply and demand is why parking is expensive at the airport, and a fiscally responsible Metro, which needs to bring in a certain amount of it's operating budget, should operate by the same principles.

PostDec 10, 2010#402010-12-10T02:24+00:00

I read an interesting article on Urbanophile about transit design around the country and world: Link

I'm sure these designs aren't cheap, but I wonder if there's some way to incorporate more creativity into our MetroLink and bus stops without huge expense on the part of Metro. For example, maybe something along the lines of "Adopt-a-Stop," where businesses/institutions would voluntarily fund updates, or maintenance, to stops near their property to improve the aesthetics of their domain. I'm thinking large institutions like BJC/WashU, smaller institutions, and neighborhood/business associations could play roles. Does anyone have any idea how much a bus stop would cost?

sc4mayor · PostJan 23, 2023#412023-01-23T21:07+00:00

Someone needs to consolidate these dozens of MetroLink threads into just a handful lol.

I would maybe retitle this one to "MetroLink Maintenance" or some variation. Seems as if there are some interesting improvements coming down the pipeline in the near future.

PD: Some MetroLink riders will have to switch trains during ongoing construction work
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/met ... the-latest

Among the projects planned over the year are replacing staircases, installing a new public address system and digital displays, rehabbing the 8th and Pine and Convention Center stations, repairing damage caused by the flood last July and upgrades to security cameras.

Metro: Periodic Changes to Evening and Weekend MetroLink Service
https://www.metrostlouis.org/nextstop/p ... k-service/

These periods of single-track operations are needed to allow maintenance and construction crews to make repairs and maintain the MetroLink system, and also install new infrastructure and amenities to improve the customer experience. This includes replacement of station staircases, installing a new public-address system and digital displays, the rehabilitation of the 8^th & Pine and Convention Center MetroLink Stations, repairing damage and replacing parts due to the July 2022 flash floods, and upgrades to the real-time camera system and new station security infrastructure as part of the Secure Platform Plan.

Here is some additional information regarding the 8th & Pine and Convention Center station rehabilitations.
https://www.metrostlouis.org/metro-proj ... rovements/

For the first stage, critical improvements would be made to restore access and improve safety at the stations. These improvements include replacing escalators with stair access, deep cleaning of station surfaces, reinforcing the existing wall system, upgrading lighting, converting existing stairwells to be exit only, and installation of emergency egress lighting.

The second stage is to perform the full enhancements of the stations. These improvements may include adding additional elevators to each platform to provide more reliable ADA access, new access control at street level, improved signage and wayfinding, and general infrastructure upgrades like new walls and flooring. No new right of way is anticipated for either stage.

Someone mentioned in another thread recently that escalator service had finally returned to one of the stations, I wonder if escalator removal is still in the cards...

In addition, Fox2 reported that new MetroLink vehicles are in the works. I hesitated posting this link here because Fox2 is trash and they didn't even provide any really useful information about the new cars. No delivery dates, no rolling stock type, etc. Just that there would be 40 of them at a cost of about $150 million (80/20 fed/local split). Then they went on a turnstile rant for the rest of the report.

‍
https://fox2now.com/news/you-paid-for-i ... nk-trains/

eee123 · PostJan 23, 2023#422023-01-23T22:51+00:00

I continue to be baffled how they can't input those scheduled blue line shutdowns east of Forest Park into any app.

You go to Google or Transit and both indicate you can ride the blue line this evening from Civic Center to Maplewood.

Do other cities do this? Half the upside of an app is up-to-date information, but Metro doesn't provide that. I guess they expect you to check their blog.

That Fox 2 story is really strange. The current trains now have wifi and security cameras with screens at the front. They've installed that in most or all trains lately. The Fox story makes it sound like we have to wait for new trains for that.

sc4mayor · PostJan 23, 2023#432023-01-23T23:23+00:00

^ The Transit app usually does show the changes and various alerts for me. At least it did during the flood related shutdown. Tonight’s changes don’t begin until 6:00pm. I imagine it’ll get updated eventually.

The upgraded trains running today are the renovated SD-460s (there are 56 of those), as far as I know these 40 new ones will replace the original 31 SD-400s that launched with the system in 1993. Those are the ones still rolling around in the older white color scheme.

The Bill Clinton car did get the updates though lol.

matguy70 · PostJan 24, 2023#442023-01-24T03:10+00:00

Any idea what the new Metro trains will look like? Are they more aerodynamic looking etc. I don't want any trains looking like a streetcar or alike... but maybe somewhat boxy? I would love to see the seat arrangement go to the sides with more standing room in the middle. I feel it is safer as well being that no one is sitting behind you blindly.
Was just in Madrid Espana, and their new Metro trains (two new styles) are really nice. They also have the automated voice system (which we have been saying forever we need in STL. Madrid's metro is run by light rail (overhead) lines as well like STL. Here are some photos:

Interior of new Sound LRT (Seattle) trains that I think is smart for safety and crowds:

sc4mayor · PostJan 24, 2023#452023-01-24T03:17+00:00

sc4mayor wrote: ↑
Jan 23, 2023
The upgraded trains running today are the renovated SD-460s (there are 56 of those), as far as I know these 40 new ones will replace the original 31 SD-400s that launched with the system in 1993. Those are the ones still rolling around in the older white color scheme.

After a little further reading I wonder if Metro will stick with Siemens and replace the SD-400s with the S200. The S200 is the North American high-floor replacement for the SD-100, 160, 400 and 460. Plenty of other options out there though...

Calgary C-Train:

They're also in use on San Francisco MUNI lines. Interestingly, they appear to work with both high-floor platforms and street-level boarding...could make for some convenient compatibility should N/S ever happen. Notice the yellow markings at the doors, here the floor is flush with the platform:

Here, notice how a movable stair has dropped down to allow for step-up boarding from low-level street platforms:

Interiors. Calgary:

San Francisco:

sc4mayor · PostJan 24, 2023#462023-01-24T19:24+00:00

East Riverfront MetroLink Station to Temporarily Close Starting January 30
https://www.metrostlouis.org/nextstop/e ... ily-close/

...the East Riverfront MetroLink Station in East St. Louis will be temporarily closed to allow Metro Transit crews to perform work at the station, including platform improvements and staircase replacement. The East Riverfront MetroLink Station is expected to be closed for at least two months to accommodate the construction work.

sc4mayor · PostApr 03, 2023#472023-04-03T15:55+00:00

Maybe retitle this to MetroLink System Rehabilitation?

Metro updated the light rail’s ongoing project page and they’re basically going to be rebuilding/replacing much of the system over the next 3-4 years. Some of these go quite a bit further than just passenger amenities.
https://www.metrostlouis.org/metrolink- ... -projects/

Something folks might like…though I’m curious what it will look like:

The MetroLink Supervisory Control Automated and Data Acquisition (SCADA) and Public Address/Customer Information System (PA/CIS) are integrated and operate as the AIM (Advanced Information Management) system. This system monitors and controls MetroLink train movements, traction power, track signals and light rail switches and communicates predictive arrival messaging to passengers. This project will provide customers with train arrival countdown audio and visual messaging. It will replace and upgrade monitoring and control systems for MetroLink for all 38 stations.

PeterXCV · PostApr 03, 2023#482023-04-03T16:24+00:00

^That would be nice. I feel like only every other urban rail system in the country offers the countdown clock.

sc4mayor · PostMay 29, 2023#492023-05-29T01:34+00:00

East Riverfront has reopened.

sc4mayor · PostJun 01, 2023#502023-06-01T14:13+00:00

I saw this picture in a PD article this morning. I’ve never seen these kinds of displays around the Metro system…I wonder if these are the new digital displays with real time arrival information.

Edit: Never mind, it appears they've had those displays at Civic Center for several years.

The “M” with the Arch is a nice touch.

Metro improving amenities for its current customers

Choose Display Mode