urbanSTL

someone call Danforth. How can anyone NOT be in favor of this idea? I think it's excellent. No more ACLU lawsuits, bye, bye...

how do we get started?

Convince the adjacent owners, the alderwoman in whose ward the park is, the City Parks Department, two out of the three members of the Board of E&A, 14 additional members of the 28(9) member Board of Aldermen, and -- thanks to a new law -- a majority of City voters.

I don't think Lucas Park is in Phyllis Young's part of downtown but it may be good to seek her advice since she has experience in resident-led efforts to maintain parks. Maybe she could convene a meeting with the two other downtown alderpersons?

I was eating at Sen Thai last night and it looked like a van or something had pulled up and people were handing out food. Not 100% though.

Chris,



That is pretty routine, I'd say probably 2-3 times a week.



Other things to watch for:



- religious groups preaching out of parked vehicles or sometimes setting up tents in the park (one in particular speaks very forcefully and encourages chants from the assembled - from far away it looks and sounds like a third-world politician fomenting unrest)



- vehicles on Locust or St. Charles recruiting day laborers

Matt wrote:I don't think Lucas Park is in Phyllis Young's part of downtown but it may be good to seek her advice since she has experience in resident-led efforts to maintain parks. Maybe she could convene a meeting with the two other downtown alderpersons?

Lucas Park is in Kacie Starr Triplett's ward: http://stlcin.missouri.org/alderman/alderman.cfm?Ward=6



Although you may want to speak with Phyllis Young about her preference for giving away the public street at night to a private entity, Midwest Valet. At least 75% of available parking spots between Tucker and 11th Street on Washington are now private at night. You know, they don't do this in Clayton where there are far more restaurants.



Some aldermen were supposedly working on a valet ordinance due to prior abuses, but apparently this has fallen by the wayside and politics as usual (cronyism) is back in vogue. It's time we hold our aldermen accountable.

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:

innov8ion wrote: Some aldermen were supposedly working on a valet ordinance due to prior abuses, but apparently this has fallen by the wayside and politics as usual (cronyism) is back in vogue. It's time we hold our aldermen accountable.

I thought they had passed some sort of bill?

No such dice. They had merely created guidelines which were forgotten about. Apparently they thought that downtown residents would forget about it too. Anyway, my last post about this here as this discussion is for Lucas Park.

Doug wrote:Again, we should have a BBQ or picnic in Lucas Park. Why don't we stop b*tching as Central says and do something.

I think any way to establish community and a sense of ownership in this or any park will serve to make it more successful. In addition, the more people that frequent a park, the more safe and welcoming it will be.



I went to a wine party in Fox Park and spoke with the President of the Fox Park Neighborhood association. They have a small garden of sorts where residents have plots and plant a variety of vegetables and flowers. Heck, perhaps we could even give a plot to homeless people as well. It'd give them a greater sense of pride in the park, and they'd have a vested interest in keeping the garden well-tended. I don't know if this is feasible, a good idea, or not, but it doesn't hurt to brainstorm.



Which leads me to a follow-on question. How would you make Lucas Park a better place for the community? (Aside from the homeless issue, please.) Add a community garden? A dog park? I'm on the board of the Downtown St. Louis Residents Association and would be glad to serve as a focal in dealing with our Alderwoman to improve Lucas Park.



So yeah, Doug's idea of a barbeque sounds like a great opportunity for people to get together and discuss ways that we can improve Lucas Park. Whatcha think? And when's good?

Bastiat, do you seriously feel the need to take up a whole page on a topic that you've already addressed multiple times in this thread? A little self-moderation goes a long way. I think it'd be nice if we brainstormed ideas to improve Lucas Park. You've already addressed the public / private ownership paradigm. Thank you.

The park is important, but I think the biggest step would be getting NLEC out of their building, and into another part of town. Where? I don't know. But with these new buildings coming online, they are only hurting the property values, and limiting the growth potential. Locust from 14th it just as dense as Wash Ave, if not more so all the way to Jefferson. With Edmonds new restaurant, Simply Fondue, Nectar, Pepper, the Tap Room...the bones are there to make Locust a nice stretch. But they need more street activity, and I think it can start with a healthy, vibrant park where people feel safe, and where homeless people don't go to the bathroom.

^ It doesn't seem possible to force him out. However, it seems highly likely that his "customers" can be whisked away to a better facility. With no customers, there is no need for the NLEC downtown. This is the best chess move as it's a win-win for the homeless and downtown residents. The homeless will have better services and residents will have their streets and parks back.



Since poor mental health is the primary cause of homelessness, it would seem to make sense for such a facility to be located near the mental health center already existing west on 5351 Delmar. Facility link here: http://www.dmh.missouri.gov/mpc/



Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX2AR-8ET4A

innov8ion,

thanks so much for keeping things here positive and constructive. i have a few ideas for the park:



1. i would love to see a dog park in lucas park. i know the downtown children's ctr will be moving--will they be taking their equipment as well? that space would be great (and fenced in) for a dog park.



2. i'm often frustrated by the fact that the playground equipment in the park on the 14th side is often occupied by adults just "hanging out" and/or drinking. what kid would want to play there? and there are actually a handful of kids who live around here! what if the playground were to be fenced? that would make it safer for them and, maybe with some signage, less prone to adults hanging around. it would probably also be a plus were the public playground to be relocated to the 13th side of the park as it is more visible to residents, isn't right by a busy street, and less public. then maybe the dog park could go on the 14th side...



3. i would also be ecstatic to have a community garden! i'm not sure where it could go in lucas park... but what about the two flower beds located between the lucas park grille and the downtown children's ctr? everytime i walk down that street, i think that we could be growing some beautiful flowers there and maybe some vegetables (provided our dogs weren't allowed to use the toilet there anymore).



4. could we somehow employ some of the homeless people to do litter cleanup in the park? and maybe some maintenance? gravel has migrated to the greenways, soil has washed onto the walkways, some of the park benches are missing slats, and the park could be better manicured (i.e. edging by the sidewalks and around benches, etc where the lawnmowers are too big to cut), grass replanted along the sidewalks and lime spread regularly to combat the acidity of dog pee.



5. and how about a farmer's market being held downtown once a week in the park? or adjacent to it on 13th???

^I like all of those ideas except for the dog park. I mean, it seems like every open parcel of land downtown someone is proposing a dogpark. Of course, maybe there aren't any and that's why people are proposing them. Fencing in the playground area should be a definant priority and, though I never payed close attention before, don't understand why this wasn't done in the first place.



As for the farmer market, that'd be cool but you got Soulard Market just south of downtown and I believe Old North has a farmers market, though not sure when or how regularly. But, it could work.

I think a more formal approach to the park would be appropriate because the setting of grand, gothic style buildings lends itself to a more period look. There are many other green spaces in the vicinity that are better suited for active use like play grounds, farmers markets and dog runs. Get rid of the playground equipment and the homeless, clean up the fountain and put in formal planting beds, walkways, statuary and benches. It could be a real show place and island of solitude.

southcitygent wrote:I think a more formal approach to the park would be appropriate because the setting of grand, gothic style buildings lends itself to a more period look. There are many other green spaces in the vicinity that are better suited for active use like play grounds, farmers markets and dog runs. Get rid of the playground equipment and the homeless, clean up the fountain and put in formal planting beds, walkways, statuary and benches. It could be a real show place and island of solitude.

A couple months of construction would certainly chase some of the bums away. It would be interesting to see the dynamic of the neighborhood change when you don't have 20, 30, 40 or more homeless hanging around.

often frustrated by the fact that the playground equipment in the park on the 14th side is often occupied by adults just "hanging out" and/or drinking. what kid would want to play there?

Is it unreasonable to require you to be under a certain age to use the playground equipment? I know it's only a partial sollution, but really. It's supposed to be for kids.

A formal garden would be nice and appropriate if someone wants to step up do it.



But, in the meantime, a neighborhood approach might be the best thing.

Johnny Sunshine, you should start an organization, Friends of Lucas Park. Get all the interested neighbors together from the surrounding area. Brainstorm and work together. Establish flower beds, clean up days, work together on maintenance issue, have fundraisers, pester the city to take care of infrastructure, see how you can get Christ Church involved (storing garden tools, for example). And more than anything, establish a presence in the park. I am not talking about getting rid of homeless people, I am talking about the neighbors claiming the park. Honestly, Lucas Park will not correct itself. And don't hold your breath for someone to come along with the big money and plans.



Not only will you improve the park, improve property values, you will establish a sense of community far beyond the walls of your building. A common cause like Lucas Park can help create a real community. I feel funny saying all this, because I don't live there and feel it isn't my business to some degree. Forgive me if it sounds preachy. But, I am inspired by Lafayette Square Park. Check out their website, www.lafayettesquare.org. They have some related information.

Perhaps the Central Library could be interested in staging outdoor events in Lucas Park periodically - it's effectively their back yard, and would give the city an excuse to "tidy up" the place beforehand.



On my most recent visit to the area a couple of weeks ago, I noticed that there were actually more apparently homeless people camped out in the northern Memorial Plaza Park between the library and the Soldiers' Memorial than in Lucas Park itself, and it looked as if the Eternal Flame Park to the west had been "colonized" too, though not to the same extent. I assume the more densely positioned trees in these other parks provide better shade from the sun. Regardless, this suggests that if the homeless occupants of Lucas Park are displaced, many will merely move a couple of blocks south.



Incidentally, I doubt the developers of the Ford Condos are pleased with the current views of the Plaza parks from their building. The spectacle of the huge banner on the Ford announcing condos "from the 400s" facing a park full of homeless people literally across the street looks like something from a Brecht production.

This is interesting:



According to Ken Gabel of the Downtown St. Louis Partnership, starting July 30th, Lucas Park will be closed from 2 - 3 PM, Monday - Friday. They say this is for park maintenance, litter pick-up, grass cutting, etc.



Of course, it could also be an attempt to reassert control of the park. Either way, it should be fun watching them chase-away the bums everyday.

"All children must be accompanied by adults -- All adults must be accompanied by children"