urbanSTL

That space looks like it could fit a decent-sized store - I wonder what they have planned.



Are there plans to build anything on the out-parcel at Loughborough and 55? While this center is a disaster from a planning standpoint, I don't have any complaints with the tenants they've been bringing in.

This is from Desco's website

This center is anchored by Lowes (the city's first) and Schnucks. Additional tenants are OfficeMax, St. Louis Bread Co., Qdoba, Starbucks, T-Mobile, H & R Block, Great Clips, and a nail salon.

Here's a site plan of the remaining outparcels:

DeBaliviere wrote:While this center is a disaster from a planning standpoint, I don't have any complaints with the tenants they've been bringing in.

I agree on both accounts! I loathe the superimposition of Ballwin onto the south St. Louis landscape, but it isn't like I'm staging a boycott of businesses that I find rather useful in spite of the horrid site layout, like Schnucks, Panera, Starbucks Coffee, and Qdoba. The Schnucks is a massive improvement over its predecessor, and I think the other businesses are welcome additions to this part of town.



At least that's more than I can say for Southtown Centre, which is still mostly vacant despite a handful of recognizable tenants like OfficeMax and Starbucks.

ThreeOneFour wrote:I agree on both accounts! I loathe the superimposition of Ballwin onto the south St. Louis landscape, but it isn't like I'm staging a boycott of businesses that I find rather useful in spite of the horrid site layout, like Schnucks, Panera, Starbucks Coffee, and Qdoba. The Schnucks is a massive improvement over its predecessor, and I think the other businesses are welcome additions to this part of town.



At least that's more than I can say for Southtown Centre, which is still mostly vacant despite a handful of recognizable tenants like OfficeMax and Starbucks.

I'm all over that Lowe's too, despite the fact that I live very close to the Kingshighway Home Depot. It's worth the extra drive to me.

^ How in the hell did I forget to mention Lowe's? I've spent a small fortune in that store, and there's still a ton of things I'd like to do to improve my humble abode.



BTW, I also forgot to mention that OfficeMax is going into the space immediately adjacent to Schnucks, and Saint Louis Bread Company will occupy the corner of that strip. Both have been mentioned before, but I thought I'd bring them up again since it looks like they should be opening soon.



The Loughborough Lowe's kills the Kingshighway Home Depot IMHO. The layout, cleanliness, availability and friendliness of employees are all superior to the Kingshighway Home Depot. It's nice not to have to drive to Maplewood or Kirkwood for home-related needs anymore.

ThreeOneFour wrote:^ How in the hell did I forget to mention Lowe's? I've spent a small fortune in that store, and there's still a ton of things I'd like to do to improve my humble abode.



BTW, I also forgot to mention that OfficeMax is going into the space immediately adjacent to Schnucks, and Saint Louis Bread Company will occupy the corner of that strip. Both have been mentioned before, but I thought I'd bring them up again since it looks like they should be opening soon.



The Loughborough Lowe's kills the Kingshighway Home Depot IMHO. The layout, cleanliness, availability and friendliness of employees are all superior to the Kingshighway Home Depot. It's nice not to have to drive to Maplewood or Kirkwood for home-related needs anymore.

Slightly OT: Wouldn't you guys agree that the Kingshighway HD has improved in the last year or so? It's like they got new management in and cleaned the place up.

Maybe. When I know I have questions I drive the Hanley store. Of course the last time I did this, they paged someone on the intercom and the next thing I know some guy is walking toward me yelling, "YO, YO. Watch-u-need?" In all fairness he did answer my question.

As upsetting as it may be for many, having suburban style shopping and national retailers is not bad. Most people in the City drive, therefore, most also deserve to benefit from the same amenities of not having to drive to Maplewood or Brentwood for normal shopping. Plus, it attracts retailers who would otherwise not locate in the City or not examine the untapped market they are missing.



Granted the site design could have been changed to have underground parking and more of an urban town center or lifetsyle center design.



Even Chicago has these big shopping centers and strip centers with semi-large parking lots in the dense sections of the City. I was shocked when I saw that.

Anyone know when The Bread Co. will open?

dweebe wrote:Slightly OT: Wouldn't you guys agree that the Kingshighway HD has improved in the last year or so? It's like they got new management in and cleaned the place up.

I've only been there once or twice in the last year (there's usually no point in going there when Lowe's is blocks from my home and has most if not all of what I need). I noticed improvements the last time I was there, so I'll still stop by sometimes if I'm in the area and need something specific, or if Lowe's doesn't have what I want.

ThreeOneFour wrote:

SMSPlanstu wrote:As upsetting as it may be for many, having suburban style shopping and national retailers is not bad. Most people in the City drive, therefore, most also deserve to benefit from the same amenities of not having to drive to Maplewood or Brentwood for normal shopping. Plus, it attracts retailers who would otherwise not locate in the City or not examine the untapped market they are missing.



Granted the site design could have been changed to have underground parking and more of an urban town center or lifetsyle center design.

Ideally, Loughborough Commons would have had underground parking and a town center design, as big boxes have been configured in other places. At minimum, more thought should've been given to traffic flow and pedestrian access, both of which are simply deplorable IMHO.



OTOH, the city managed to attract a national retailer with no prior city location, Schnucks greatly expanded its operations and improved the quality of the store at this location dramatically by building new, and other national retailers that have already established a retail presence in the city now have more convenient locations for people in this part of the city. As I said before, the design disappoints, but the convenience is a plus!

SMSPlanstu wrote:Even Chicago has these big shopping centers and strip centers with semi-large parking lots in the dense sections of the City. I was shocked when I saw that.

Shhhh- if you tell some people in St. Louis this, they might realize that (1) Chicago is not the flawless urban utopia it's purported to be, even if it is a wonderful city by any measure, and (2) little ol' St. Louis really isn't so bad after all.

Just drive 5 or 10 minutes west of downtown Chicago on W. Chicago Ave or W. North Ave and there's plenty of big boxes with parking in front. Stuff like Home Depot and Cub Foods in plazas just like Loughborough Commons

But it's hard to ignore the urbanized formats in dense sections of these cities as well.







That's a tiny picture, but that is of a Whole Foods in a very urban neighborhood of New Orleans (Uptown). It took over an old streetcar station and is an absolutely stunning example of reuse.







The above building, an old funeral home on St. Charles Avenue, will be saved and converted into a Borders Store (serving the Garden District area).







The above is the Chicago Home Depot on North Halsted (I believe) which is built at a triangular intersection and is, of course, right up to the street.







That is the downtown Minneapolis headquarters of Target, housing one of their stores.



Whether reuse or new construction, these cities have found ways to reconcile "urban" with "big box". The simple fact is that St. Louis has not yet done this at all. Whenever a new retail entity is introduced into the city, everyone screams with happiness and adopts the "we'll take it as is, because we have to" mentality.



The result of that thinking is St. Louis's current scarred and uninteresting retail landscape. We need not sit still just because Chicago--an immensely large city with so, so many more retail options in all different formats--has big box stores too. Every city in the country has big boxes somewhere. The awful and ugly truth in St. Louis is that there are almost no remaining precedents for any urban construction when it comes to larger-scale retail.



Maybe the Mercantile Exchange/Bottle District will change this deplorable track record. (?)



And by the way, find me a big box toy box that is a fraction as large as Loughborough Commons! That thing is just huge--and a massively wasted opportunity to capitalize on pedestrians' usage of the nearby Carondelet Park as well as the residential densities.



It is not really accurate to call it "ugly"--it in fact looks a lot like many of the newer suburban centers going up on the fringes of St. Louis and other cities' exurbs. It just doesn't belong in the city, or even near it.



There are site plans that can create an urban, walkable space and accommodate cars to a reasonable level. I don't believe car-friendly and pedestrian-friendly are mutually exclusive.



And if they are, I say no wonder the United States has a deficient (native born) engineering population.

^ Fantastic - love the examples of modern urban retail. Now, why in the world wouldn't StL/Union Station not give the shed to an Ikea? This would be huge. OK - so it could go a number of places along the old industrial corridor as well. With the projected growth on the east side it would be a mistake to put the store in West (or St. Charles) County. If not Ikea, why not a Whole Foods and Target? Maybe the Bottle District site could house a significant retail component. Thanks for the reminder that these stores can be done well.

^^ Great examles MDTH! I suggest you send a letter or two to the mayor, alderman, and rollin with those examples.



Great post.

I don't claim to know another about these kind of things. However, I am going to take Target as the example. Target I love them and yes they do the big box burb stores. From my travels to larger cities Target has learned how to build up if they the land is not there to build out, which seems to be the style in some areas. Like Atlanta there was a 2 story Target I believe (its been a while) near Buckhead or the Lenox Mall. Not sure but these retailers can adapt to the surrondings and the city needs to say like our downtown has something to offer once again. I may live in Affton but I love downtown and try to get down there as much as possible I would shop at these stores just because its downtown.



Now staying somewhat topic. The Commons is not really a great spot to be. Yes I am a Starbucks fan and trying to turn out of there is a nightmare. Also those handicapped spots by Schnucks wow what a bad idea. I have been shopping at that store and pretty much every weekend I can beat on seeing an almost accident. The whole flow for the place sucks. Will I continue to shop there? Yes. Why? I like that Schuncks better than the one on Gravios and two other stores I like.

Afftonguy78 wrote:Now staying somewhat topic. The Commons is not really a great spot to be. Yes I am a Starbucks fan and trying to turn out of there is a nightmare. Also those handicapped spots by Schnucks wow what a bad idea. I have been shopping at that store and pretty much every weekend I can beat on seeing an almost accident. The whole flow for the place sucks. Will I continue to shop there? Yes. Why? I like that Schuncks better than the one on Gravios and two other stores I like.

I agree. You won't find anyone on this forum that's in love with the layout of Loughborough Commons, or anyone that thinks the developers couldn't have or shouldn't have done better. I'm just saying that other cities have big boxes as well, and they've experienced equally frustrating missed opportunities with big box development like this one.



That said, the botched up traffic flow and poor pedestrian access are simply inexcusable, and it gives the impression that someone at City Hall in charge of reviewing site plans is sleeping on the job. How unfortunate.

That top picture in the examples reminds me of how cool the building near Kinsghighway and I-70 was - the big amunition factory with horns or wings or whatever - anyway, that area's supposed to become a big box retail area right? That really could have been a sweet shell to make the area unique.

Grover--I absolutely agree. I think that was a tremendous architectural loss in a country whose outmoded industry is quickly losing favor. The speed and quiet with which it disappeared were surprising as well.



While less reformat-able, I do miss the Grove Gasometer out my window above Sweetie Pie's.

Grover wrote:That top picture in the examples reminds me of how cool the building near Kinsghighway and I-70 was - the big amunition factory with horns or wings or whatever - anyway, that area's supposed to become a big box retail area right? That really could have been a sweet shell to make the area unique.

I was disappointed to see those torn down- and it's another unfortunate missed opportunity.



MDTH...those pictures from New Orleans are great! A Borders in an old funeral home? Wow!

I worked for Borders several years ago and during my time there I noticed the company moving away from having distinct stores in older rehabbed buildings to a cookie-cutter design. Very glad to see they are going back the other way again. Hopefully they will do that in STL.

I will be in NOLA in a couple weeks, will have to check that out. I already thought the Whole Foods on Magazine St. was a great adaptation of an old property.

From my travels to larger cities Target has learned how to build up if they the land is not there to build out, which seems to be the style in some areas. Like Atlanta there was a 2 story Target I believe (its been a while) near Buckhead or the Lenox Mall.

Afftonguy, as a recent transplant from Tower Grove Heights to Atlanta, only 2 miles from the Target you refer to, I can tell you that you're right. It's in Buckhead and across from Phipps. The stores in this shopping center are incorporated into and ring a multi-level parking garage. The development has a furniture store, Filene's Basement, Dick's Sporting Goods, aforementioned Target, Jos. A. Bank, and Publix. Most importantly, it has no parking visible from the street.

For anyone interested, the Bread Co. at Loughborough Commons

is now open.