urbanSTL

Grover wrote: This is what really happens when a market is in a downtown.

I hope you meant downturn instead of downtown!?!?



The exterior of this building is just hideous! It reminds me of the house from My Big Fat Greek Wedding. I think the interior pics looked really good IMO.



In the Business Journal the developer said "We took care of the issues within our reach, but couldn't control the marketplace, and condos are one of the first casualties of a depressed market." I think the main issue here was poor design. I don't know how anyone can cost effectively fix the exterior considering the too-small windows, etc.



I disagree with those who say the $250K - $500K range couldn't sell in Dogtown. Saaman has sold a lot of places for $300K+ in the neighborhood. I think if this had been attractive it would have attracted some buyers.

^ Indeed.



So does the developer still make his money on this? He seems to have an "oh well, I guess we tried" attitude.

I don't think the bank will try to sell the units so much as they will try to sell the building. I think if these went rental they'd lease without much issue, it is after all a great location. At the end of the day the developers AND the bank are going to lose a good deal of cash on this deal.



The poor exterior design hides a poor interior design as well. Some of the units are alright, but some are just horrible. Either the architect doing this work had little or no multi-family experience (from the exterior look I'd vote for a big box architecture firm) or the developer threw down a few sketches and said "draw this or else."



*** MORE INFO***



Found the architect...CDG Engineers...yeah thats right ENGINEERS.



http://www.cdgengineers.com/

Serving power/infrastructure/industry/mining



Yeah thats a winning combination for multi-family architecture. At least we know the parking layout has top notch efficiency, and I did notice the remarkably good job they did on the new curb cuts.



from the article

http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... t=cn_cn_lk





-Brent

"CDG Engineers Architects Planners - Where Architecture Comes Second."

bhardy wrote:The poor exterior design hides a poor interior design as well.

Wow. I just reviewed the plans and some of them are terrible. The corner units are great, but the interior units are super long shot guns. This is acceptable in huge old warehouse buildings where you don't have a choice and you sell at a lower price per square foot, but in a new construction building it is just unbelievable! To see some really nice plans that also aren't selling (I think because of the interior finishes) go to http://www.comptongatecondos.com.

This is where the southside Italian hoosier thought he had good taste and could properly design a building. That thing is HIDEOUS. The ONLY reason it didn't sell was for that reason alone! It looks like a cheesy Italian restaurant was converted into a condo building. St. Louis demands better architectural design. Were those small windows purchased at a closeout sale? w.t,F?

Holy Crap! Like AvantStL, I just reviewed the floor plans, and I think "terrible" is much too mild. NONE of the 2nd and 3rd floor interior units have BEDROOM WINDOWS! Not in the kitchens, either. I mean, who would want to live here, Mole People?

AvantStL wrote:I disagree with those who say the $250K - $500K range couldn't sell in Dogtown. Saaman has sold a lot of places for $300K+ in the neighborhood.

I'm not entirely familiar with the $300K+ Saaman places that have sold in Dogtown. Are they similar to the units that are idle in the Lehman building?



I don't exactly have my finger on the pulse of the Dogtown market or the St. Louis market, but I could see a $300+ single family home with maybe a small bit of yard or outside living space selling in Dogtown, but not a condo with zero green space and choked natural lighting.

There's an article about the foreclosure in The Southside Journal today. The developer blames it on the market conditions, but others said they were too expensive, and the developer was difficult to work with.



Funny, nobody mentioned that many of the units only have one window in the entire condo.

Anyone heard what retail will fill the designated spaces in the development? I have not heard any solid rumors. Some far fetched one mentioned the reopening of the Dogtown Bistro, formerly across the street from Lehman by the former owner. I also heard that some of these units have already been foreclosed on. Don't know if that is true, nor can I verify that.

What's really sad is how ugly the backside of this building is as you drive north on Tamm up to Clayton.

Link to the article (not sure if this has been posted yet?).



http://southsidejournal.stltoday.com/ar ... an.ii1.txt



-Brent

DOGTOWNB&R wrote:I also heard that some of these units have already been foreclosed on. Don't know if that is true, nor can I verify that.

Go back through the last couple pages. The entire project has been foreclosed on.

It should be torn down.

Ouch.



How disheartening to read all of this. This is all just a little under a mile from my house, and the wife and I decided to go for a walk to the shops in the area and see what all was around, checking out the barber shop, got some coffee at Cairdera's(?), etc. We went walking up to Lehman and were saying how nice it would be to have another 4 restaurants/retail spots opening up. Then I get on here and do a search of the address and found this pitiful news.



Anyone hear any news on this, be sure to post it. I'm interested to see what happens with it. That will be a nice little sore spot to show off to the friends and family when we stroll down to the restaurants.

^I wish they had never started this ugly project to begin with. The barber shop that used to be at that corner relocated within the neighborhood, but Dogtown is now minus a hardware store

^ I can't even speak for what was there before since I just moved last week, and hadn't spent a lot of time in the area before that. Terrible

As fas as I know the bank owns the property and they are shopping it around to various developers. The problem is there is so much sunk cost in the building in terms of finishes, kitchens, etc, etc...for 'high-end' condos. The floor plans are horrible, and the only real demand right now is for rental. I think without gutting interior of the building and starting new theres not much hope. I would prefer the thing just be torn down and a building with a much more appropriate design be built in its place, but that I think is wishful thinking.



Thanks,



-Brent

My guess is that its better to sell the building as-is than to tie any future owner to honoring a lease that may impact and/or limit their future plans. Not to mention that the bank is not in the business of managing retail space...there is also additional cost / liability / time associated with the build-out / management of tenant space and the bank probably wants no more cash in the building than it already has.



-Brent

I think this building really isn't so bad. I live a few blocks away and pass by almost everyday, and the project, while clearly not perfect, meets a lot of the requirements for good urban construction. Its got street level retail, parking is to the side or in an underground garage around back, it mixes residential and commercial, its tall - it certainly has more housing units than would fit on the same space in single family homes, and while it isn't breathtakingly beautiful, I also think its not particularly ugly. Its much less commercial looking than it could be.



I think long term, once the bank finds a buyer and the places are sold / rented / leased etc. It will be an asset to the neighborhood. Personally, I'm looking forward to having several more stores to be able to walk to once its leased. I think that while the condo units might be poorly designed, they have to be marketable at the right price. The location is great!

scotto wrote: the condo units might be poorly designed

What an understatement! Have you seen the floorplans? The middle units have hardly any windows, leaving some rooms completely landlocked. People might accept that in a renovated loft, but not in new construction in a neighborhood like this.