urbanSTL

After his interview with me on KMOX, Larry's wife had it right...

Penny Rice said her husband never physically injured her, but felt his verbal abuse for years.



"No woman should have to go through what I went through," she said. "All I'm asking is to be on my own, to live in peace and away from this kind of treatment."

http://www.fultonsun.com/articles/2005/ ... news15.txt



Isn't that what everyone wants downtown and across the state? To be away from Larry's "treatment" of the homeless?



The homeless deserve better than Larry's poorly run organization.



"The fish rots from the head down..."

Very interesting interview - I just listened to it.



Larry Rice did an excellent job and his points were very enlightening.

bprop wrote:Very interesting interview - I just listened to it.



Larry Rice did an excellent job and his points were very enlightening.

Up until now, the focus on Larry Rice and the NLEC has been framed incorrectly. This will soon change. Social justice for the underprivileged will soon prevail and those violating their human dignity and exploiting them for their own financial gain will be exposed. As g-d as my witness, mark my words.

innov8ion wrote:.... and exploiting them for their own financial shall be exposed. As g-d as my witness, mark my words.

Can't wait, particularly the satellite pics of Larry's mansion and garages full of exotic cars.

bprop wrote:

innov8ion wrote:.... and exploiting them for their own financial shall be exposed. As g-d as my witness, mark my words.

Can't wait, particularly the satellite pics of Larry's mansion and garages full of exotic cars.

^ That may or may not be the case -- I won't be addressing that. I am glad you join me in advocating for the welfare of the homeless.



bprop, I have spent hours interviewing a number of homeless individuals that have stayed with Larry Rice and the NLEC. I am documenting facts and stories and will soon be reporting specific issues. There is much suffering. The voices of the homeless deserve to be heard and will not be repressed.



I speak of a minister with at least $40-50 million in assets violating the human dignity of the underprivileged. Assets he accrued by generous donors that entrusted him in reducing the cycle of pain caused by homelessness. How well is he accomplishing this mission? How well are his tens of millions in assets leveraged in supporting his mission? If they are not, that should be considered exploitation.



These are valid issues and questions which will be investigated and communicated throughout the region. For the sake of the homeless, the public deserves to know the truth about Larry Rice and the NLEC.



By the way, I am not advocating that Larry Rice be forced from downtown. I am advocating that standards of dignified care be met -- standards that Rice so aggregiously violates. You see, it is his behavior and that of the NLEC that must change. As President of the NLEC, he and he alone will decide what kind of presence he maintains downtown.

I'll let this speak for itself...



http://martello.org/blog/2008/08/letter ... gfiel.html

UNREAL!

Larry thinks he is doing God's work. He is right and everyone else is wrong.

He believes that the Government (local, federal) is inherently evil.

Sounds like a radical Christian fundamentalist positon if I've ever heard one.



My problem with Larry is that he uses the "cream of the crop" of homeless folks who interact with him to carry on his televangelic empire. The rest are not lifted up. Totally self serving.

Godwin's Law in action: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

gopher wrote:I'll let this speak for itself...



http://martello.org/blog/2008/08/letter ... gfiel.html

That is quite disrespectful and insensitive to the memory of the Jews and others that suffered and were exterminated during the Holocaust. This is not the type of message that I would expect from the Communications Director of a religious institution. As a Jew that has been exposed to the highly personal stories in visiting both Yad Vashem (Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem) and the house/museum of Anne Frank, I feel great sadness that this NLEC spokesman would stoop to such perverse levels.



This is yet another example of Rev. Rice and the NLEC serving to divide the communities where they maintain a presence. For shame!

innov8ion wrote:As a Jew that has been exposed to the highly personal stories in visiting ... the house/museum of Anne Frank...

OK. You hate Rice. Everyone gets it.

bprop wrote:

innov8ion wrote:As a Jew that has been exposed to the highly personal stories in visiting ... the house/museum of Anne Frank...

OK. You hate Rice. Everyone gets it.

That's not what I said in the least. I hate no one. I look at any given situation through ethical lenses to determine whether it is good or not. Are you saying you approve of the NLEC being insensitive to Jews and other groups of people persecuted by the Nazis? I'm fine with that, if that's how you feel.



In any case, I know a given argument is over when the opponent fails to argue the issues and instead attacks me personally. It means I have won the middle. And I couldn't care less about trying to change your perspective -- I only care about understanding you and any tangible arguments you may have. Unfortunately, you appear to have ran out of those a while ago.



I am perfectly comfortable with my position because it is rooted in empathy and consideration for the welfare of the homeless. Where is your position rooted? I'm curious.

That's where we differ I guess. You, as a Jewish person who visited the Ann Frank House, are outraged at his hyperbolic statements comparing the marginalizing and atrocities against Jews to the marginalizing and indignities against the homeless. That's fine. Rice and his spokespeople have been making statements like that for years. They do it on KNLC and and in letters to newspapers and interviews in the media. Is it a valid comparison? No, I would say not, but the same statements are made by politicians, activists, and forum posters every day, thousands of times a day, and I would contend that, while the person may not be making a logically sound argument, it doesn't really make the counter-argument either.



I'm not attempting to debate the homeless issue here, just the idea that all of this outrage (not only yours but everyone's, and both real and phony) is somehow coming to a head *now*. Maybe it is. Maybe this will prove me wrong. But my position on NLEC in particular is this. It has been there over thirty years. Barring Rice's death, in which case it's more uncertain, it will be there tomorrow, next year, and in ten years. St. Patrick's Center is great, the churches are great, but Rice provides shelter whereas the others do not. If the loft district was further west, then Harbor Light would be in the crosshairs. I don't know what the resolution will be, but I do believe that this repeated call for shutting down NLEC -- because of insensitive statements by a spokesperson, because of the amount of NLEC's assets, because of a statement his wife made about their personal lives before her death -- is the wrong approach and is too wide of a weapon -- and the wrong weapon -- to clean up Mr. Martello's playground.

bprop wrote:Rice and his spokespeople have been making statements like that for years. They do it on KNLC and and in letters to newspapers and interviews in the media.

And this is the first time (that I can recall) that anyone has called them out on it, which is a good thing.

http://urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=1086&start=0





We know the problem is the homeless population not Larry. Have you considered what will happen if you get NLEC shut down. Where will these men sleep?

Consider this...Why not spend your time working with St Patrick's Center and other organizations to end chronic homelessness. Help rehabilitate and educate the population. Help them move back into society. Get them the medical help they need.



Wouldn't this be a better lesson for all of our children?

^ and in the mean time larry rice should be excused from all responsibility for luring homeless people downtown who then proceed to break the law?



nope.

Wow. Just listened to the Rice/Martello radio discussion posted under the topic and was a little disheartened at Martello's response to one caller's charge for him to help find a solution to the homeless problem. I would have felt better had Martello said he spent time working in the shelters and understood how Rice was miss-managing the homeless versus the other shelters he (Martello) had no problem with. It is also very evident that the "homeless" variable of this situation is going to make or break the outcome. Martello is very, very weak on a solution to the homeless problem yet strong on pointing the finger at Rice as the crux of the Lucas Park issue.



Martello and others that oppose the NLEC better have a well thought out plan on;



A) Linking the Lucas Park situation with only the homeless individuals associated with NLEC

Reason: Martello openly stated he has no problems with any of the other homeless shelters operating near NLEC and Lucas Park.



B) Providing sound proof that Rice's alleged miss-management of NLEC has effectively compounded the Lucas Park situation, as well as done more harm the good for the homeless.

Reason: Martello is directly attacking Rice and none of the other homeless shelters



C) Team with city officials and other homeless shelters and create a very detailed, thought-out, multi-year plan that explains how downtown will absorb the impact upon the homeless when the NLEC shuts down.

Reason: Well, openly complaining about the NLEC and not talking about a solution to the homeless problem makes you sound like a whiny yuppie with only your interest in mind; Martello really needs to work on this one before he's cast in a perpetually negative light.



Rice already has lawyers creating very well constructed counterpoints to each of the above issues. Good luck, Martello, I hope you get your man...

Actually, the problem IS Larry's "organization".

• He kicks them out during the day so that they have no place to go.
  
  They can't come back inside to use the restroom or even get water
  
  They congregate in the park to line up to get back into the shelter at night
  
  They can only stay 14 days, then they can't come back for 30 days
  
  Volunteer organizations come to distribute food which gets uneaten, and trash strewn about creating a rat and health issue.
  
  Some (not all) of the people congregating in the park sit there all day drinking booze, fight, yell, scream, pee on children's playground equipment, harass the neighbors walking their dogs.
  
  Larry indicated on KMOX that the police service calls were mostly the police dropping people off... that is not true. Assault, firearms, brandishing weapons, etc. are all on the books. Look it up.
  
  Larry's organization has a verifiable disturbing pattern of neglect.
  
  From the rape down at his "free store" which he turned into a homeless shelter, to the fatal stabbing at 1411 Locust, to the chainsaw attack at his New Bloomfield, MO. Now he's just opened a homeless shelter in Springfield, MO right next to a high school. Where's the supervision? Oh, that's right his staff is too busy calling the residents of the neighborhood a bunch of NAZI's and attempting to circumvent the questions that must be asked.

WHAT TYPE OF ORGANIZATION IS HE RUNNING?



The city has a plan and it is starting to work. Larry doesn't sign up with the plan, why? You'd have to ask him, on his tv station he said that (and I quote) that "they can control you".



Where are the metrics of how many people he's helped? I would really like to see it. If you or I were running an organization wouldn't you want to see what was working or not?



How many licensed clinical social workers does NLEC have on staff?

A religious volunteer does NOT qualify you to help someone with serious addiction problems, it just exempts you from state licensing requirements and employment tax. And who are these "volunteers" anyway?



Here's a comparison about "administrative cost" see anything different?

Helping the homeless CORRECTLY is expensive and time consuming, but it is EFFECTIVE in helping people transition.



Doing it incorrectly is a waste of everyone's time, effort, money, and patience and unfortunately only HURTS the people that it's attempting to "HELP".



http://ago.mo.gov/cgi-bin/charity/orgDetail.cgi?ID=3697

St. Patrick Center

Figures from July 1, 2005 - June 30, 2006.

Administrative cost: 14 percent.

Program expenses: $809,000.00

Total expenses: $10,003,000.00

Total revenue: $10,007,000.00



http://ago.mo.gov/cgi-bin/charity/orgDetail.cgi?ID=3532

Figures from January 1, 2005 - December 31, 2005.

Administrative cost: 22.6 percent.

Program expenses: $3,093,006.00

Total expenses: $3,996,101.00

Total revenue: $3,175,396.00



http://www.centenarystl.org/index2/inde ... 5&Itemid=7



Although CARES offers meals, CARES is not a “soup kitchen”, CARES is access to human social services. CARES staff provide a welcoming environment where people can come in and rest and get out of the elements. CARES offers sanctuary. CARES offers many services including providing a permanent mailing address, voice mail boxes (in partnership with the Human Development Corporation), and birth certificates and identification, all services that lower barriers to shelter and employment.



I highly suggest better cooperation with the county officials to help provide smaller shelters and distribute the burden regionally as it affects us all and it's not just limited to our little "park".



As far as

A) 560+ police calls JUST TO NLEC in the past 2 years...

B) Read above...

C) Read above...



Herein lies the problem... everyone is willing to point fingers and say, "leave them alone" but no one is willing to stand up and say, "Please put them here!" No one in their right mind would want to warehouse 80-100 people in their backyard, if it's not supervised and managed correctly.



Smaller, more effective shelters, distributed regionally can be managed more effectively and safely than one massive building.



"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." A. Einstein.

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:It isn't Martello's job to find a solution.

Debatable and moot only because part of Rice's defense tactic will be claiming Martello and others care only about the park and not the homeless. Having a well proposed solution to the problem will strengthen Martello's position.



Martello is gopher; gopher is Martello? Good data, man. I signed your petition and support your fight.



Rice said flat out he'll have lawyers building a defense so you'll need an airtight case.

^ Despicable, deplorable comment