the exterior wall collapsed in the out of plane direction. the loading may have had too big of an eccentricity and then the wall goes. Those buildings are very old with no reinforcing and probably not too well maintained. Plus the mortar from the 1800s probably sucked too.
I was down on the Landing last night for a 'haunted" historical tour. It was VERY depressing to see how the construction has destroyed business down there. We walked the streets with the group and maybe 5 cars passed us. Many of the buildings are closed. While the staples, Morgan St., Big Daddy's and Sundeckers, were open, I bet there were less than 30 patrons in all 3 bars. I remember the days when the Landing was packed Weds-Sun. There were tons of bars and restaurants. The main lot in the middle of the Landing had maybe 30 cars parked in it. It was so quiet, all you could hear was welders on the McKinley Bridge working.
This begs the question: Let's assume the stadium is not built and nothing goes on the North Riverfront for a while. Will the reopening of streets and the Arch grounds, rejuvenate the Landing? Will this be quick or take a long, long time? Is construction even the real culprit? Is it Ballpark Village, Wash. Ave and other options, that have bled the Landing? The Casino was never going to spur the Landing, as casinos have been proven, to not spur development beyond their property. I guess I just miss the days of the Landing being mostly full of businesses and young people everywhere. I hope it can regain it's status as the hot spot for young people. That was it's niche. It the stadium is built, I think it will come back with a vengeance. If not, it will all depend on what goes on the North Riverfront. Obviously, they need people living down there. Hopefully, some residential projects come to fruition. I admit, I have not paid a lot of attention to the landing, since my days as of 20-something are over.
What is the game-plan for the Landing going forward? Do they have one, post Arch project? Anyone have a feel, as to whether or not the Landing can make a big comeback? I sure hope so. The Landing has so much potential. It should not be failing. It is so cool,with it's historic atmosphere, buildings, cobblestone, proximity to the River, etc. etc. etc.
The Landing was having problems before construction. And those businesses were well aware of what the construction was going to entail. But in fairness, construction has been delayed. So they may not have been prepared for the amount of time this was going to take.
I think there's going to be a good influx of people once the arch ground project is finished. But I think that too will eventually fade.
The Landing needs a number of things to improve its activity, but I think the two most important are people and access. They need residents, tourists in hotels, etc. They need better connections to it. Nobody lives there, so its void of activity in the evenings. And any tourists that come in town stay in hotels on 4th St and have no reason to walk down there. If you're staying downtown, how would you get to it? Washington Ave and through that Drury owned parking lot or Morgan Street I guess? Also the only hotel there is Lumiere Place, all others are closer to 4th street. Those people downtown just go straight to the Arch. No reason to go out of your way to the Landing.
^^ the riverfront and Landing have been in decline for a long time but i would say that, most recently, the casino delivered the fatal blow. ever since they destroyed Mississippi Nights and sucked in all the street life the level of activity down there has been nonexistent. IMO that casino is a blight, from its ugly exterior to its acres and acres of parking. by the way, are we over the "glowhalk" yet? it looks like trash.
urban_dilettante wrote:^^ the riverfront and Landing have been in decline for a long time but i would say that, most recently, the casino delivered the fatal blow. ever since they destroyed Mississippi Nights and sucked in all the street life the level of activity down there has been nonexistent. IMO that casino is a blight, from its ugly exterior to its acres and acres of parking. by the way, are we over the "glowhalk" yet? it looks like trash.
you're just a beacon of optimism, smiles and good tidings these days....
^ Coatar is introducing a bill to change 3rd Street to "Lumiere Place" b/w Washington and I believe Carr. Pathetic.
I agree the casino was a setback for the Landing but that's so Saint Louis. Fundamentally, we're going to have to recognize that we need more feet on the street on a daily basis and that means more residential and office jobs. Stadium ain't going to help the Landing much at all but Plan B just might.
urban_dilettante wrote:^^ the riverfront and Landing have been in decline for a long time but i would say that, most recently, the casino delivered the fatal blow. ever since they destroyed Mississippi Nights and sucked in all the street life the level of activity down there has been nonexistent.
My old friends and I were recently glory daying about the Mississippi Nights > Sundeckers > Bommers > Kennedys circuit we used to run. Picking up the Riverfront Times to see if it was the Eyes, Pale Devine, The Urge playing live. Being drunk as hell but still able to navigate the cobblestones with skill.
urban_dilettante , the loss or Mississippi Nights was truly heartbreaking. Also, Kennedy's was a big loss. I remember a great place when I was utilizing my fake ID, called the Dirtwater Fox. Also, Trainwreck had a great location down there. I still think the Landing has potential to be awesome. It is in such bad shape right now. I couldn't help but be depressed. I do agree, the loss of music venues is huge! I was in grade school, but I even remember attending shows at Furst Rock (not FIRST Rock). I'd like to see somebody open up another legendary music venue like M-Nights. There's no better place or atmosphere in town, to go to a show. Maybe this is a job for Joe Edwards. I'd love to see him shift his focus to other needy places in town. Maybe another local visionary could help the Landing. It really felt unique. I miss the place so much. Damn that casino for tearing it down! .... Rant over....
sirshankalot wrote:you're just a beacon of optimism, smiles and good tidings these days....
i'm actually pretty optimistic about things these days but it's difficult when so many other places are making great strides, comparatively. meanwhile in St. Louis we have our eyes closed and our hands over our ears so we can't see or hear about what's working elsewhere. bike lanes still provoke pitchfork mobs. transit expansion is forever being studied but never implemented. our taxi commission strong-arms pedicab drivers for fear of competition. and a billion-dollar sports box with no demonstrated economic virtues is the only thing "important" enough to make our state, civic, and business "leaders" give a sh*t. it's more than a little depressing sometimes.
DogtownBnR wrote:I still think the Landing has potential to be awesome.
absolutely. what St. Louis doesn't get is that you can't have a city comprised of destinations accessed by car. the Landing has to become a neighborhood if its going to survive.
I wonder why no one is developing residents on the landing I know at lest 5 people out side of the city that would love to live there. ( most of them in there 20s) The buildings are in great shape it is close to the river, the arch and metro-link. All the city has to do is back a to pd plan with TIF to help bolster developer interest.
Also the building that had a wall fall down is almost 2/3 repaired
Isn't the Landing nicely accessible by mass transit?
Sometimes I think we get overly critical with what we have. Our neighborhoods just need more people. There are few cities where you can live carless. Given our size, I think we do ok given that one could survive quite well along the central corridor without a car. To me and my limited knowledge of other places, that's more than can be said in many of our peer cities in which we say a ton more positive things are happening.
I also don't understand why people fixate on the north riverfront that is being "destroyed" by the stadium plan when a seemingly endless number of blocks lay waiting for development all over the city. I don't think the identity of STL is being compensated by building this stadium. We definitely need more investment in our deep stock of historic buildings, but if the stadium proceeds, why not focus efforts southward? People are harping on the north riverfront as the front door to the city, etc etc, however it is Chouteau's Landing to me that is more of an eyesore.
^ I haven't heard a peep. I am fairly certain though that the planned garage in concert with City+Arch+River is off, so anything Drury does will be on its own.
I can't help but think how the death of Lacledes Landing due to CAR construction mirrors the death of downtown retail due to Metrolink construction in the early 90's. For those that weren't around in that time the fiscal decision to do cut and cover construction of the Convention and Pine stations was the last straw for many struggling businesses. Major streets and sidewalks were closed for over a year and a half. Even though St. Louis Center was struggling before the construction, the fact that it's main entrance was blocked sealed it's fate. I know of 3 retail shops along 6th in what is now the Stifel building that closed due to the construction.
Aquarium back up and running on a smaller scale. I like his proposal for the landing and think it would be the right place for the right time to come together. Question, can he pull it off as envisioned and wonder if he was given OK to put some names in his comments in regards to KCI Construction and blessing/support from CVC.
But Sonnenschein also has a bigger idea up his sleeve:
He says he’s in the final stages of buying land in Chouteau’s Landing, south of the Arch grounds, and has plans to build a $25 million, two-story, 70,000-square-foot aquarium by the summer of 2017.
He has drawings that include two forest atriums and a large ocean tank, with sharks, “giant creatures” and a reef, plus more than 50 smaller tanks upstairs.
The local firm KCI Construction is on board, Sonnenschein said, and he got a letter of support from the St. Louis Convention & Visitors Commission in June.
He should donate his menagerie to the zoo and become an affiliate institution with executive control built into his contract until he retires. Otherwise this is just going to creep along for years and never take off. Like the Butterfly House, affiliation would come with a massive subsidy draining the host institution and propping up the starter museum.
I'm sure the $25 million is money that will be borrowed rather than money on hand. It'll probably also come with much greater expenses by CityArchRiver and Great Rivers Greenway to connect it to the arch and the riverfront trail. That's great, but nobody is ready for that in the 2010s.
Looking around Geo St. Louis, there's a Chouteau's Landing LLC and a Fourth Street Chouteau's Landing LLC... Are these the same company, and if so why is one company holding most of Chouteau's Landing? What's the planned future development? I've never heard anything at all.
.... Rant over.... 
