urbanSTL

urbanitas wrote:
Ha, they have a picture of the half-under water clearance height sign I mentioned.



I bet that freaked out a few Amtrak passengers.

Well, that answers my question; yes, the water has actually reached the trestle. 

gary kreie wrote: No! Please no. What, and then add speed bumps to slow travel back to current speeds? Are we too busy to drive slowly over one or two blocks?  This is one of the primary things that makes the Landing unique. Keep the cobblestone streets. I can scarcely believe anyone would suggest otherwise. Buy an SUV. As everyone else already has anyway. 

When you look at Google Earth, you can see how pieces of cobblestones have been removed over the years. Jack only said that they are doing the East and West Streets, so that would be Lucas and Morgan. So Commercial, 1st, and 2nd will remain cobblestones. Of those, 1st and 2nd are the only true main streets there since so many buildings are missing. and the Cobblestone will remain for aesthetic reasons. The ultimate goal, according to people I have talked to on the Landing, is that the removal of the cobblestones on Lucas and Morgan will help with pedestrians walking. Those are all more uneven than the other streets and are steep grades to traverse by car and foot. Bikers, according to some, also have a hard time. So, I think they have this planned out just so.

^But with more rain in the forecast and new crests coming over the last few days in Nebraska it will almost certainly keep going up. The current prediction calls for another foot and a half, which will still leave it three and a half shy of the 93 record. But . . . more rain can change that. And more snowmelt, if you get a sudden temperature spike in Montana or Colorado, say, and more melts faster. This really is a fairly impressive flood, even if it is still (and will hopefully remain) less than the "five hundred year flood" twenty five years ago. (Was it really that long? Oh geeze?)

I thought they were supposed to re-cobble all of those streets, like, several years ago?

Yes, I agree Chris, something unique should be done, rather than just pavement.

It looks like majority of the cobblestones on the N/S streets with the retail will be staying. I love the brick look but the narrow one-way streets are already disasters after the "repair" a few years ago, to the point where it goes beyond traffic calming to being a little bit ridiculous. I know a vendor that refuses to drive their trucks down there because it shakes up all the cargo and breaks things. 

gary kreie wrote: No! Please no. What, and then add speed bumps to slow travel back to current speeds? Are we too busy to drive slowly over one or two blocks?  This is one of the primary things that makes the Landing unique. Keep the cobblestone streets. I can scarcely believe anyone would suggest otherwise. Buy an SUV. As everyone else already has anyway.


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I think they might be "charming" for the occasional visitor, but for the daily office population... and now residents... the cobblestones are cumbersome.  However, I believe the N/S streets will retain them and the E/W streets are going concrete, which should allow for routes in and out without actually having to drive on them.  I know the stones along Morgan street were eventually angled toward the East from all the water that runs downhill, so they were extra scalloped. 

I do understand both sides.  I do agree they're very effective as speed control, and they're also plenty annoying to drive over. I'd side towards keeping them, but I get the other point of view.

*if* the cobblestones are ever replaced, I don't think asphalt should be the solution. And while it's just a personal preference, I hate the stamped concrete approach.  It's obviously not what it purports to imitate, which makes it look cheaper than it actually is.  I think the ideal replacement for cobblestone would be a permeable stone paver:



^ Those are fired clay pavers, and I wouldn't use that pattern in the Landing.  But you could in theory do the same thing with new granite cobblestones - the key difference being use of square-cut  instead of rounded stones.  Establish a good base and lock the stones in place with fine crushed stone and you have a solution that still gives the appearance of the old cobblestone streets, is smoother to drive on, and being semi-permeable, absorbs water instead of letting it run off into the sewers and/or the river. In fact many municipalities concerned about runoff mandate use of something like this in place of asphalt.

It would be pricey, but then again I think the maintenance on the cobblestone isn't exactly cheap these days either.

-RBB

My 2 cents - Laclede's Landings roads are trash, and I kind of think it'd be nice for visitors if, after figuring out how to even get into the neighborhood, they weren't greeted with roads that threaten to destroy their vehicle's tires/axles/suspension/etc.. 

symphonicpoet wrote: "five hundred year flood" twenty five years ago.

From the fwiw category, I believe the Great Flood of 1993 was categorized as a "125 year flood" event.

I agree.  Morgan has become a nightmare.  Unless they're going to spend big bucks to recobble everything correctly, I don't see a point in saving any of it.  I mean, I'm sure people have twisted their ankles in heels down there just walking on them.

^ thanks for bringing re-cobbling up... is it my imagination or was it just a few years ago Landing biz were complaining about a major re-cobbling job taking so long? If so, was that work completely screwed up? (Having just driven there this past week, I'd say yes!)

Honestly the cobble style on Commercial and Collins St. would be perfectly sufficient for these roads. Nice driving surface that seems to held up to the test of time, especially compared to the disaster that is the current situation. It's like driving down a staircase.

Maybe we just need to fly in a crew from Europe. They seem to know how to lay cobblestones so they don't wreck your ride or your ankles. 

MattnSTL wrote:

symphonicpoet wrote: "five hundred year flood" twenty five years ago.

From the fwiw category, I believe the Great Flood of 1993 was categorized as a "125 year flood" event.

At least in the popular press at the time it was being characterized as a "500 year flood." All of this is a little misleading, as it's not really saying that "this will or should happen about once every five hundred years" but rather that it's a certain percentage above normal. And as anyone who tosses dice knows disconnected improbable events happen when you do things enough. And sometimes they happen in clusters. But it doesn't really matter. I was kind of falling into the trap anyway. Really what I meant is that flooding is getting worse for a variety of reasons, and I think we can all agree on that. And whatever else, I surely hope this doesn't break that 1993 record. That was terrible, and we're already way too close.

symphonicpoet wrote:

MattnSTL wrote:

symphonicpoet wrote: "five hundred year flood" twenty five years ago.

From the fwiw category, I believe the Great Flood of 1993 was categorized as a "125 year flood" event.

At least in the popular press at the time it was being characterized as a "500 year flood." All of this is a little misleading, as it's not really saying that "this will or should happen about once every five hundred years" but rather that it's a certain percentage above normal. And as anyone who tosses dice knows disconnected improbable events happen when you do things enough. And sometimes they happen in clusters. But it doesn't really matter. I was kind of falling into the trap anyway. Really what I meant is that flooding is getting worse for a variety of reasons, and I think we can all agree on that. And whatever else, I surely hope this doesn't break that 1993 record. That was terrible, and we're already way too close.

Yep, from the USGS' Upper Midwest Environmental Sciences Center (PDF document, page 2) :

Rainfall throughout the Mississippi and Missouri Basins caused record flooding, estimated to be a 500-year event in the lower half of the Upper Mississippi River

-RBB

As far as driving in the Landing and cobblestones, I would say close 1st and 2nd between Laclede's Landing Blvd and the Eads and close Morgan and Lucas between Lenore K Sullivan and Memorial to cars altogether. You've got two surface lots and the garage that can all be accessed from Memorial, LKS and LLB. Get out and walk from there or ride the train. Make sure you have one ADA approved route that connects all buildings to those lots and the train station.

Trololzilla wrote: ^ Or just buy a few of the brick paving machines they use.

Is this for real? I never know what to believe in this era of Photoshop. 

framer wrote:

Trololzilla wrote: ^ Or just buy a few of the brick paving machines they use.

Is this for real? I never know what to believe in this era of Photoshop. 

Workers load it and it comes out.

Every time I go take pictures I get scooped minutes before . Chris covered the flood pretty well but here are my pictures from today





Here is also some progress on the Lucas Ave extension. Looks like a pretty high quality job.


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Some cast iron from the Switzer Building. There’s quite a bit of it so it could be rehabbed and reused on a new building.

Hmmm...I guess it's too heavy for scavengers to haul away. I wonder if Larry Giles knows about it? 

framer wrote:Hmmm...I guess it's too heavy for scavengers to haul away. I wonder if Larry Giles knows about it? 

I wouldn’t mess with it for now. After posting it on my personal Twitter, I got a message saying that a developer is working on it.

I had met a lady who was taking care of a large group of feral cats right by that cast iron collection one day several years ago.  She said a ton of people have tried to steal it, and well, cannot.

I've been to the STL architectural salvage place on Lafayette and they have a ton of original cast iron storefront pieces.  Really beautiful stuff.