urbanSTL

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Jan 28, 2020

Good access to 70. Close to rail. Close to ports in Alton. 4 lanes on lindbergh with dedicated turn lane. Ramp access to 367.  Site infactructure in place. Excellent regional sales team at the Freightway. Suffice it to say, I oppose not giving redevelopment a shot.

I can see replies on Port Authority RFP revolving around logistics and warehousing for the specific reasons that Jane outlines in her post.   I also see the possibility of no replies considering the amount of build out and developments specific to logistics and warehousing in the region already.   Eventually the region will have to many warehouses just like it probably has too much retail space like Jamestown mall itself. 

The site isn't that big plus you get. You'd probably only get 2 logistics centers in there. 

The Northpoint industrial proposal is dead after Alderwoman Webb declines to support the project following community opposition. Apparently the community members want a retail development. It's too bad no one had an honest conversation with them about how that isn't going to happen.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 420d0.html

Retail is highly unlikely given that North County is shrinking and this site is on the extreme northern edge of County residential. Passing up on this development was a mistake. Only the Fox Manor subdivision would potentially be negatively effected by the development and much of that could be mitigated with proper set backs and noise barriers. 

NorthPoint has been the only developer to answer RFP's for the site over these last two rounds of proposals. Hard to see them wasting any more time and money on this project even when it inevitably goes back to proposal after the retail pipe dream fizzles

one of the most dangerous abandoned malls in the country
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-LNueq83G8

^Thanks for sharing. I didn't realize it was also a dangerous nuisance. 

I'm with you. Put resources into creating walkable human-scaled places near where people are instead of putting it into this.

There are nearby farms. I visited Fort Belle Fontaine a few months ago and noticed multiple farms on my way out there. 

I wouldn't be interested in that from a county-level perspective. Spending millions on remediation for the privilege of acquiring a long term cost? No thanks. The site is excellent for light industrial and warehousing, as are some of the land across lindbergh.

Unless some non-profit or conservancy organization is willing to pony up and cover all of the costs, I don't see it happening.  Although I do think it would be the best long term use.

This mall is like an urban legend to me. People talk all about it, but it's like it doesn't exist to me. I guess the factor that it's been empty a majority of my life, in a part of the county where no one really lives, and way on the other side of the county and city from where I live is the reason why I feel like it doesn't exist.

Seeing the abandoned mall walkthrough and looking at images on Google makes it seem like it's somewhere else. My family refers to it as "the forgotten mall", I just didn't think it really existed until recently. It's a real shame that this will sit empty for a long time, but that's the way things are. Just demolish it and clear the site of all concrete. If a developer wishes to develop on it. then the land is available. If not, it will slowly return to nature.

^ I'm in the same boat as Chris on this one, it's been empty most my life and the Jamestown Mall is something older people will reference as once a happening place, but I was never there personally in it's heyday.

Between Jamestown, St. Louis Center, Crestwood, the Union Station Mall, The Mills, and Chesterfield Mall, STL really overbuilt the mall population for the size of city we are.  Online shopping and changing consumer habits absolutely played a major role in these malls failing, but I think STL was also hit by it's usual problem of having so many municipalities that all wanted the tax revenue / pride of having their very own major shopping mall, and we wound up with too many, too close together.

I think West County Center, South County Mall, The Galleria and St. Louis Premium Outlets will continue to serve the STL City / STL County population well enough to stay afloat for the foreseeable future, but they won't be packed enough to tempt any developers into building a new mall.

Most new shopping centers we seem to see developed are in the style of Streets of St. Charles, The Brentwood Promenade, or City Foundry.  And while I'm not a huge fan of "drive to urban density" concepts like Streets of St. Charles, I think the mixed use concept is still infinitely better than just an giant enclosed shopping mall surrounded by acres of parking.

This is a loss for StL Co. NorthPoint is a good company that's committed to StL and this project would have provided solid jobs for the area. Much better jobs than the retail that the residents want. The tenants that would have moved to this logistics park are still going to be looking for new space, and will likely end up in St. Chuck or Madison county instead.

npav wrote: ↑

Jun 17, 2021

^ I'm in the same boat as Chris on this one, it's been empty most my life and the Jamestown Mall is something older people will reference as once a happening place, but I was never there personally in it's heyday.

Between Jamestown, St. Louis Center, Crestwood, the Union Station Mall, The Mills, and Chesterfield Mall, STL really overbuilt the mall population for the size of city we are. 

The thing is, we weren't overbuilt on malls when Crestwood, Union Station, and St. Louis Center were built. Crestwood in particular was a fairly spectacular success for a very long time as such things go. But shopping habits were different then and there were fewer interstates and many many fewer malls further out. (Crestwood was pretty much the edge of the world in the 50s when they built it. Brand new subdivision with brand new homes. Route 66 glory days, really. The only reason the mall wasn't regarded as a 66 landmark is that it remained successful so late and kept getting expanded and updated right up until Zorensky sold it to Westfield in the late 90s.

Union Station and St. Louis Center were more speculative, but they were both interesting ideas attempting to solve real regional problems. And at the time, Famous still had its flagship and indeed its HQ there. (And there were many more office workers downtown, I suspect.) We did overbuild, but I would say that was mostly a tax chase and the worst offenders are more far flung and much much much more subsidized. (West County was so blighted they got one of the regions first TIFFs. Right there in what was run down, nasty ass Des Peres. I believe they used a sagging hillside slumping into the highway cut as a part of the justification.)

Jamestown might not have even seemed all that crazy at the time. What with McDonnell Douglas, TWA, and the Hazelwood Ford plant not all just a quick jaunt down Lindbergh. And some fairly sexy new housing developments. (Some fancy gated communities up off the river.) The airport was a crazy beehive and things were still growing up there then. Even Alton was a fairly quick jaunt. Chesterfield and St. Charles hadn't gained their special glow yet. (There were still plenty of farms in Chesterfield at the time. Still are a few.)

UrbanReviewStl - Jamestown Mall Site Part 1: Analyzing the Site, Problems, and Options

http://www.urbanreviewstl.com/2021/07/j ... d-options/

^ Have to agree, time to bulldoze and let semi rural/single residential developments take over the property in time.   Maybe a St. Charles New Town like development might happen or not.  

I do get BellaVilla's argument above about a strong local industrial developer taking over the site but their seems to be plenty of areas and current industrial parks within north county that can meet warehouse/distribution needs.   I also doubt that the site is well served by transit or alternate means for workers and will be so for years to come so therefore a light industrial/distribution type development only continues to spread of workforce/decreases employee density even more.  In other words, their is more than one way to spread sprawl.   So even though you might replace an existing use, which is not a bad thing, but I think is a legit to ask yourself if those malls jobs being replaced by warehouse jobs should be replaced or encouraged to be replaced in a different location    

Do they leave the water on for the sprinkler system?

StlToday - Significant maintenance problem’: Portion of Jamestown Mall floods after water line breaks

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... f74dc.html

This is such BS. To remind everyone, the deluded representative and her constituents scuttled a private redevelopment of the site that would have seen it converted to light industrial because they would prefer retail (ya know, the use that failed at this site). Now the tax payer is burdened with paying for the demolition. But wait, there’s more! The $6MM here won’t actually cover the cost of demolition. So YOU are on the hook for more. Congrats.

When Jamestown Mall was built I considered it out in the boonies there just wasn't much around there but the talk was it's going to be all built up And the mall failed.  Personally I have not been to that area in ages.  If they're going to bring in mixed use to the former Jamestown site is there now economic support i.e. new  homes etc for that sort of project? If I recall that was one of the reasons why Crestwood mall failed and why any re-do of that the former mall stymied Crestwood has been left with an aging population and aging stores. The 'new' money had/has moved on.
And yes they should have nabbed the chance to do light industrial at the old Jamestown site