urbanSTL

vollum wrote:Actually just about all of the credit for getting the Big Dig funded should go to Tip. The earmark was pretty much a retirement gift to the retiring speaker at a time when transportation earmarks were no where numerous as they are today.

As I recall, this particular package of pork was vetoed by Reagan, but Congress overrode it. That didn't happen without Teddy's influence.



In any case, it's true, Tip O'Neill deserves much of the shame, but he's been pushing daisies for about 15 years now. And here we are, over 20 years after Tip's retirement, and Teddy is still bringing home the bacon (while grooming future Presidents, including The One, for which I'm quite sure he expects a handsome return on his investment for his home city and state).



Of course, even Teddy doesn't hold a candle to the all-time greatest producer of Federal pork for transportation projects in his home state, Robert Byrd.

jlblues wrote:

southsidepride wrote:

jlblues wrote:^Yeah, just imagine. Then every city could have it's own version of the Big Dig*.



* Estimated cost in 2006 dollars: $6 billion, most recent estimate of actual cost, including interest (but not including repairs and legal expenses): $22 billion (and rising), having Ted Kennedy as your Senator: Priceless!

Not defending the big dig, but at least Ted Kennedy's boondoggle of billions spent on infrastructure is in the USA. Unlike Dubya's which is in Iraq . More American taxpayers are likely to see their money at waste in the Big Dig than on Iraqi Highway 101

If you are going to respond and use the , perhaps you could write something reasonably clever and relevant? Hell, at the very least, how about writing something coherent?

whatever dude. Just pointing out that Republicans aren't exactly opposed to spending billions on infrastructure too. They just prefer to do it in Iraq as opposed to here in the USA.



Just because it's something you wouldn't hear on Limbaugh or FOX News doesn't make it irrelevant.

^ You do realize what you're saying is a bit silly, eh? Both parties have spent $$$ on foreign infrastructure for years and years. Particularly when it reaps great monetary investment for our country. Yes, we exploit the third world for our benefit. Have you read about the Banana Wars? Learn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars. Our standard of living isn't high, as compared to much of the world, for no reason. However, this is nothing new in world history -- world powers have always dominated the rest of the world. It's only the way in which it is performed, that changes.

Famous Marine, Smedley Butler wrote:I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

Brazil, Russia, India, China & Mexico (BRIMC) will be growing rapidly and will be doing more of the same. China will have an ever-increasing role to play in this world. Know that we will still play a strong role in the world, however our stature is on the decline. Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRIC

innov8ion wrote:Yes, we exploit the third world for our benefit.

We also benefit the third world...tremendously.



A greater percentage of the planet's human population has been lifted out of poverty over the last decade than during any equivalent period in history. From where do people think most of the capital that made that possible comes??? The stabilizing effect of having the U.S. as the sole superpower is a significant factor in that as well. Yes, I know that contradicts everything the mass media has told us to believe. And I know some of you are going to say that this trend is reversible, and that is true, to some extent, in the case of world war, plague, or economic collapse, but modern history indicates that such reversals are only temporary, and any loss is quickly regained during periods of growth, as long as markets remain relatively free and unencumbered.



In any case, the point is, that each dollar of foreign infrastructure investment by the U.S. at least has the potential of benefiting every American (see our investments in western Europe, Japan, South Korea, and southeast Asia), whereas a dollar invested in an ill-conceived, unnecessary regional transportation project like The Big Dig, that only serves to ensure and enhance the longevity and stature of the careers of a few politicians, does not.

I found it interesting on China's take for their stimulus package, throw a pile of money at their infrastructure to the tune of +500 billion. This is on top of them spending 7-8% of their gpd for infrastructure already. Then give it some more thought. First, since they own their banks so they don't have to bail them out. Second, without the private property stakeholders nor a convoluted tax structure they don' have to offer rebates or tax breaks to keep the masses happy either.



While I'm enjoying this thread. It seems kinda of disheartening that an investment in infrastructure is becoming the if all else fails option for our government. Yet, it is obvious that China is head and shoulders above the rest of the developing world due in part to their investment in infrastructure.

^true about China, but don't forget they are way behind the United States. While they were busy doing their Great Leap Forward and starving everybody, we were building our interstates the first time around. Our issues lie with maintaining what we actually have and maybe adding a bit on here and there. China has gone from virtually no infrastructure to what they have today in a short amount of time. I'd say they are in the 70s compared to where we are today.

^



http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008- ... 332002.htm



Yeah I remember when we built our first high speed rail line in 1974.....all we have to do now is just maintain it Were so progressive!



60 years ago China was starving its people and violating peoples basic human rights......60 years ago America was lynching people and denying people basic human rights. I don't think you have a very good argument. Besides Beijing is probably more modern than any city in the US.

brickandmortar wrote:^true about China, but don't forget they are way behind the United States. While they were busy doing their Great Leap Forward and starving everybody, we were building our interstates the first time around. Our issues lie with maintaining what we actually have and maybe adding a bit on here and there. China has gone from virtually no infrastructure to what they have today in a short amount of time. I'd say they are in the 70s compared to where we are today.

I think you're right.

goat314 wrote:^



http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008- ... 332002.htm



Yeah I remember when we built our first high speed rail line in 1974.....all we have to do now is just maintain it Were so progressive!



60 years ago China was starving its people and violating peoples basic human rights......60 years ago America was lynching people and denying people basic human rights. I don't think you have a very good argument. Besides Beijing is probably more modern than any city in the US.

First Amendment at work

goat314 wrote:^



http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008- ... 332002.htm



Yeah I remember when we built our first high speed rail line in 1974.....all we have to do now is just maintain it Were so progressive!



60 years ago China was starving its people and violating peoples basic human rights......60 years ago America was lynching people and denying people basic human rights. I don't think you have a very good argument. Besides Beijing is probably more modern than any city in the US.

Wow, this is just too rich. Goat, would you mind if I shared this with people? I know some people that could use a good laugh.



Sometimes this forum reminds me of Jay Walking on The Tonight Show...

While I don't like to come to MoDOT's defense too often, this is a list of projects that are 'ready to go' so to speak. That is the design has been largely completed and the right of way is being purchased(if necessary). Had this been three years ago, I bet the I-64 reconstruction or the new river bridge would be on there.



Looking at the big list, there is $10-20 million proposed to purchase 200 public transit vehicles statewide. Hardly a drop in the bucket...



Link to entire list



Anyway, I hope there is a transit aspect to the proposed stimulus plan. Federal Transit funds would hopefully be diverted to struggling metropolitan transit agencies. As for the City, I've heard they have a list of projects that they are submitting for consideration.

Anyway, I hope there is a transit aspect to the proposed stimulus plan. Federal Transit funds would hopefully be diverted to struggling metropolitan transit agencies. As for the City, I've heard they have a list of projects that they are submitting for consideration.

Metro has submitted a number of projects:



$50 million emergency stimulus to prevent cutback and save 3400 jobs

$25 million to repair and paint the Eads Bridge

$50 million for Metrolink infrastructure work including rebuilding union station tunnel and many other projects



Grand Center will submit work relating to Grand Station and the Scott avenue street improvements related to bridge project.



there are others.

I think the state needs step in and give more funding for mass transit across the state. Agencies like Metro shouldn't rely on sales tax revenue to pay for their services. Is Metro going to Jeff City to make their voices heard? I hope so!



Columbia Transit isn't that great. It doesn't run on sundays and service ends at 7pm or 10:30pm. Columbia needs to follow the way Champaign-Urbana MTD operates their system, i.e. extensive, runs late into the night, and has service on sundays. MTD supposely gets generous funding from, the state of Illinois, property tax revenue, and the UIUC. The facility and students at UIUC get to ride it for free. I don't understand why doesn't Mizzou and CT come up with something like this?

One item I'm curious on the MoDOT end is that they requested $10 million to build two new rail sidings as a means to improve the St Louis/Kansas City Mule (Amtrack service between the two cities). State representatives gave them $5 million and the Feds gave $3.3 million. This seems like an opportunity not only to expand upon it but also add equipment (for more frequency) and a possible try at a St. Louis - Springfield train. Amtrak from my understanding has equipment idled due to lack of funding for repairs. The timeline might work. Feds fund repairs, repairs completed, and the necessary agreements to run a test train in place by the time repairs are completed.



Second Item, now that MoDot has procured a list and Busdad has chimed in for Metro (thanks Busdad for the input). Where is the city in all this. I can think of three projects that should be ready to go within a year.



1) North Tucker Blvd rebuild (keeping the bridge as is will keep some unique underground space intact for creatitive uses later as well as allow for a quick turn around on engineering and procurement)

2) I-64/Hwy 40 rebuild & new Tower Grove interchange from Kingshighway to Boyle.

3) Grand Ave Viaduct replacement with new Metrolink Station



I believe the region needs to step up and provide for some serious funding for planning, engineering and righ of way acquistion. I think some worthwhile projects that can get decided upon and least be at the table in 2-4 years from now include



1) Metrolink Danial Boone line extension

2) Hwy 141 extension (its going to happen, why not be ready for funding)

3) Memorial Drive replacement - at grade blvd to replace I-70 after the new MRB is built. Reconnect various side streets

4) Grand Ave street car line

5) 22nd street interchange recognfiguration and extension to Chotteau Ave

6) Metrolink Lambert Main Termial station replacement. Reconfigure to allow for an underground station below the pickup/dropoff that allow for a westward extenstion.

^Grand Avenue and I-64 at Tower Grove are already funded. Tucker would be a good candidate as the money isn't entirely there yet for construction.



I-64 at Tower Grove(including new bridges at Boyle, Newstead, and Taylor) is funded by MoDOT and BJC. I'm not for certain, but I think construction is slated for 2012 or 2013.



Grand Avenue should start in 2010.

From a quick glance through, there are some good projects on there. Like Morgan Ford between arsenal and Chippewa and Macklind from Chippewa to Eichelberger. Replacement of the North Tucker Bridge and almost $200 million for transit including $45 million for preventative maintenance, $25 million for Eads Bridge painting and maintenance, and $50 million for funding deficit. A couple million for the water towers. The most interesting is $30 million for green alley construction. I would assume this goes with the 3 test alleys that were paved with pervious pavement earlier this year.

I completely missed the $900 million for north/south Metrolink extension. So about $1.1 billion requested for transit. Not bad. This includes $35 million for the loop trolley.

The city of St. Louis has the largest transit request on the report. The north south Metrolink expansion with an estimated price tag of 900,000,000 is far and away the largest on the report (est. 20,000 Jobs). Be nice if we got it. Hopefully we get one of our own as sec. of transportation.

jlblues wrote:The majority of the country is still unreachable by paved road.

Have you ever driven around some of the counties in the foothills of the Ozarks?

jlblues wrote:And don't be fooled by the hundreds of shiny, new highrises in the cities; there are still several ... hundred people in (Missouri/Illinois) that don't have electricity or potable water.

But every country has their Venice, Sauget, and East St. Louis.

Ok, I can't claim that we are not better off then China. But there are points to be made with how I misquoted you.



On a side note, was it me or was that a lot of taxiway repavement for our little airport. I guess it will be nice to have that new runway and taxiways in case some airline actually decides they want to land here.