Great "community engagement," huh?

bonwich · PostNov 05, 2010#12010-11-05T13:56+00:00

If I'm counting correctly, Monday will mark the halfway point in the "90‐day Program Analysis and Design Development Effort." According to the original announcement:

A monthly web‐based progress report will update the public throughout the implementation period.

The CityArchRiver website has had all of ONE update since the original botched winner-announcement, and that "update" told us

Happy 45th Birthday to the Arch!
On October 28, 1965, the keystone was placed “topping off the Arch.” As we mark this anniversary, we look forward with excitement to October 28, 2015!

The MVVA Team has begun the implementation phase following its introduction to the community on September 24th. The team is working closely with the National Park Service (NPS), members of CityArchRiver 2015, the city, Metro East, MoDot, IDOT, the Corps of Engineers and many others to create a final design concept consistent with the NPS General Management Plan and competition design goals.

Adding to the excitement, the award-winning Ken Burns documentary, “The National Parks: America’s Best Idea,” and Oprah Winfrey’s recent visit to Yosemite National Park to air on October 29 and November 1, have elevated interest in our national parks.

Representatives of CityArchRiver 2015 Foundation have enjoyed the opportunities to speak to community organizations, schools and citizens and we look forward to continuing to engage with the Greater St. Louis community.

Wanna make sure your idea for the bison paddock gets heard? How about making sure the committee comments about not closing Washington Ave. are reinforced by actual citizen input? Not to mention hearing what the various budgetary options are and commenting on what local citizenry feels are good or bad ideas? Well, um, er....

But hey, I'm always looking for the negative, you know? I'm sure all the stuff going on completely behind closed doors will end up being in the best interest of the metropolitan region.

sirshankalot · PostNov 05, 2010#22010-11-05T13:59+00:00

Have you reviewed Cheeseology yet?

Alex Ihnen · PostNov 05, 2010#32010-11-05T15:01+00:00

^ Bonwich - seems like questions the P-D should address - know anyone there who cares?

bonwich · PostNov 05, 2010#42010-11-05T15:19+00:00

I'm working on it.

lukethedrifter · PostNov 05, 2010#52010-11-05T17:43+00:00

Me and the Arch are only 6 weeks apart in age. I'm a little rusty too.

gone corporate · PostNov 05, 2010#62010-11-05T20:27+00:00

FWIW, the story's made the NY Daily News...

http://www.nydailynews.com/real_estate/ ... h_par.html

Alex Ihnen · PostNov 06, 2010#72010-11-06T03:12+00:00

Nice quote by MVV himself: ""In the 20 years between the design and the execution of the arch, St. Louis underwent a dramatic change, especially with the impact of interstate highways,"says Van Valkenburgh, referencing the labyrinth of highways that dissect the Gateway City."

bonwich · PostNov 23, 2010#82010-11-23T15:20+00:00

T + 60 and not a peep. But certainly all the decisions being made are wise, and they're soliciting input from all concerned stakeholders, and in any event there will be a period of rousing public debate after the elements of the final plan are decided and the budget is presented.

Alex Ihnen · PostNov 23, 2010#92010-11-23T15:24+00:00

My best guess is that the "90-day period" will extend well into January. That is, more like 120+ days. Consensus building, even behind the scenes isn't easy. Basically, this is a huge, complex project with dozens and dozens of players. The biggest challenge is to get something good done while not allowing the effort to get bogged down by one party or another.

bonwich · PostNov 23, 2010#102010-11-23T15:39+00:00

Alex Ihnen wrote:My best guess is that the "90-day period" will extend well into January. That is, more like 120+ days. Consensus building, even behind the scenes isn't easy. Basically, this is a huge, complex project with dozens and dozens of players. The biggest challenge is to get something good done while not allowing the effort to get bogged down by one party or another.

And the City of St. Louis doesn't really have a crime problem. It's all just that damned manipulation of statistics by Morgan Quitno.

This is, by many people's criteria, one of the most important -- if not the most important -- civic projects in the past 50 years. The "powers that be," whoever they are, promised at very least a monthly update. Nada. (Not even a "Hey, we're extending this out to 120 days.")

So you're content that a $300M project (um, public project) be planned and budgeted in a back room? Who decides what "something good" is? The Great White Fathers? (Sure looks like it.)

Democracy is a b****, until you try the alternative. (Sir Winston Churchill, paraphrased.)

RobbyD · PostNov 23, 2010#112010-11-23T15:53+00:00

^I'm guessing, Bonwich, you are not a fan of federal earmarks...

I'm not buying the white man conspiracy theory, but I am guessing no news yet means there is no news yet. There are a lot of moving parts to this thing. And given the current political environment re budget cuts and questions of how best to spend public money, I'm guessing the powers that be want to keep publicity as sellable and non-messy as possible.

bonwich · PostNov 23, 2010#122010-11-23T16:17+00:00

Ahh, but there has been news, unless the design team and the various local representatives haven't met at all. The Great White Fathers have simply chosen not to release any news, despite its only public statement thus far:

A monthly web‐based progress report will update the public throughout the implementation period.

But hey, it was OK that they couldn't manage the release of the winner's name, so I guess y'all can just give them a pass on faking their intentions on the ongoing process as well.

Oh, by the way.

Over a 90‐day period, the team will work in partnership with the sponsors, the City of St. Louis, the National Park Service and others to further define program requirements; begin developing a design that takes into account the feasibility and practicality of proposed solutions; create a construction budget and fundraising plan; and define the delivery expectations from now until 2015.

“Between now and January, we will be challenging the MVVA Team to rise to the challenge to do what’s best for the city, for the region and for this national park,” said St. Louis Mayor Francis Slay. “The Arch is a national treasure, but it is intensely personal to people in and around St Louis. We will be working with
Michael and his team, with continued input from the community and the experts, on creating the best solutions for the Arch grounds and the neighboring area.”

Guess you're only a member of "the community" by invitation.

RobbyD · PostNov 23, 2010#132010-11-23T16:34+00:00

^I too am interested in hearing news of the project out of personal interest and public accountability...

But hey, you work at the P-D...don't get snippy just cuz an internet forum scooped your mainstream newspaper on revealing the designer for the new Arch grounds...lol...get some leads! Don't you know anyone on the Building Blocks forum who knows someone or someone on the Downtown beat has to have a scoop...?!

I can only assume the Democratic establishment in this town and the good folks at the P-D have a pretty tight relationship...Good gosh, get us some news, man.

bonwich · PostNov 23, 2010#142010-11-23T16:56+00:00

RobbyD wrote:I can only assume the Democratic establishment in this town and the good folks at the P-D have a pretty tight relationship...Good gosh, get us some news, man.

Clearly, you haven't read Mayor Slay's blog in the past 5 or so years.

RobbyD · PostNov 23, 2010#152010-11-23T17:14+00:00

bonwich wrote:
RobbyD wrote:I can only assume the Democratic establishment in this town and the good folks at the P-D have a pretty tight relationship...Good gosh, get us some news, man.
Clearly, you haven't read Mayor Slay's blog in the past 5 or so years.

I haven't but have been clueing in more lately...I generally like what he has to say, lol...

No disrespect to the P-D or its writers...I read online daily and do enjoy B McClellan's input on Donnybrook...I don't always agree with him, the P-D editorial board or choice of certain 'loaded headlines' that push a point of view... but hey, we are all going to have a point of view, right?

I agree with your urgency on the Arch project...This is a BIG deal and I am personally very excited about the whole thing so far...This is one of those events/places that will trancend politics and hopefully continue to impact us ALL positively...

There clearly must be public input, but I'm one of those who would rather defer to the experts on much of this...I also feel that there are so many entities involved in the project that there will be enough varied points of view to keep any one single interest or driver from overtaking the project...

This should be the crown jewel on Mayor Slay's resume, especially if he runs and wins an additional term...I honestly trust the guy to make sure the entire Arch project goes as well as it can...

And yes, I want news....

Alex Ihnen · PostNov 23, 2010#162010-11-23T17:17+00:00

bonwich wrote:
Alex Ihnen wrote:My best guess is that the "90-day period" will extend well into January. That is, more like 120+ days. Consensus building, even behind the scenes isn't easy. Basically, this is a huge, complex project with dozens and dozens of players. The biggest challenge is to get something good done while not allowing the effort to get bogged down by one party or another.
And the City of St. Louis doesn't really have a crime problem. It's all just that damned manipulation of statistics by Morgan Quitno.

This is, by many people's criteria, one of the most important -- if not the most important -- civic projects in the past 50 years. The "powers that be," whoever they are, promised at very least a monthly update. Nada. (Not even a "Hey, we're extending this out to 120 days.")

So you're content that a $300M project (um, public project) be planned and budgeted in a back room? Who decides what "something good" is? The Great White Fathers? (Sure looks like it.)

Democracy is a b****, until you try the alternative. (Sir Winston Churchill, paraphrased.)

Joe? You OK? Did someone say that the City of St. Louis doesn't have a crime problem? No.

Do you think that I'm happy and satisfied with how the Arch grounds competition was conducted and how changes are being planned? Are you paying attention?

bonwich · PostNov 23, 2010#172010-11-23T17:46+00:00

In the crime thread, at least 3/4 of the past few days' responses have been to point out the flaws in the Morgan Quitno methodology. With respect, that's just more whistling by the graveyard. Whether we're "No. 1" or in the top 20 (which we most assuredly are), it's a Bad Thing. And most of the excuses we're putting out there (oh, just do it by SMSA) are relatively lame, since they also apply to at least 50 other urban areas in the rankings.

That said, whether you or I are happy isn't terribly relevant. Regardless of whether you or I like the process or the results, it's pretty damned clear that said process has thus far completely ignored any semblance of "community" engagement.

Roger Wyoming · PostNov 23, 2010#182010-11-23T17:52+00:00

bonwich wrote: Regardless of whether you or I like the process or the results, it's pretty damned clear that said process has thus far completely ignored any semblance of "community" engagement.

Are you still working on pushing your employer to cover this?

bonwich · PostNov 23, 2010#192010-11-23T18:09+00:00

^You betcha. But it's not like we've got folks just standing around on any given day, and this week is especially tight. But I'm working on it.

RobbyD · PostNov 23, 2010#202010-11-23T18:34+00:00

^^^I know youre not humbly saying that whats printed in mainstream media outlets has little to no effect on public perceptions! Whistling by the graveyard?!

I have read 3 posts today referencing St. Louis' position as the most dangerous city in contexts THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH CRIME...
* Charlotte article about DNC convention...poster pointing out a Charlotte advantage
* Chicago/St. Louis banter where St. Louis' dubious position surfaced
* A Facebook post on my page

My point is this list will likely do NOTHING to help deter crime in this City or anywhere, but has again made negative associations for St. Louis NATIONALLY.

I only go all caps because how strongly I feel about the idiotic nature of the list. It matters greatly IMO. And will likely have real, negative job and dollar consequences.

I'm hoping St. Louis can broadcast the declining crime rates and continue doing whatever has been working to get the numbers to go down.

Alex Ihnen · PostNov 23, 2010#212010-11-23T18:45+00:00

^ Back to Arch competition engagement discussion in this thread...there's a crime thread to continue with that issue.

RobbyD · PostNov 23, 2010#222010-11-23T19:06+00:00

^yup...

I won't be as concerned if a "monthly" update is not given as I will be if no effort is made at any point to public inclusion. I doubt that the folks running the show are aware that routine monthly updates were promised. Maybe the men and women in charge are running on a notion that timely updates are required only when something of public interest is accomplished.

I'm holding on to the thought that there just isn't much interesting to report.

And I agree this whole process and project needs to go as perfect as it can. The Arch is an American institution and so needs to reflect American ideals of by the people and for the people at every juncture.

LOL, but I actually like the MVVA proposal, so sometimes I'm off apparently.

bonwich · PostNov 23, 2010#232010-11-23T20:22+00:00

RobbyD wrote:I doubt that the folks running the show are aware that routine monthly updates were promised.

They've issued precisely one public statement about the process, and they don't know what that statement says? Once again, that doesn't bode well.

Alex Ihnen · PostNov 23, 2010#242010-11-23T20:28+00:00

Look - the competition and process aren't about public participation. We know that, right? it's disappointing. It's frustrating. It's not surprising and it's not going to change.

bonwich · PostNov 23, 2010#252010-11-23T21:08+00:00

Alex Ihnen wrote:Look - the competition and process aren't about public participation. We know that, right? it's disappointing. It's frustrating. It's not surprising and it's not going to change.

OK, I lied. CityArchRiver actually has issued one "update" during the 60-day period. They were kind enough to tell us that Oct. 28 was the 45th birthday of the Arch. And they actually included one whole paragraph of propaganda:

Representatives of CityArchRiver 2015 Foundation have enjoyed the opportunities to speak to community organizations, schools and citizens and we look forward to continuing to engage with the Greater St. Louis community.

So, no, we don't "know that." If we give the Great White Fathers a pass for such explicit, bold-faced lies, then yes, "it's not going to change." And you can look forward to another 50 years of stupid decisions, lack of civic pride (why should St. Louisans be proud of something over which they have zero control) and overall stagnation.

Or we could actually, once, stand up to this hypocrisy.