Grand Center

roger wyoming II · PostJun 01, 2016#5762016-06-01T15:37+00:00

^ Agreed.

dredger wrote: Does anyone believe or understand that their might some other development tied to it as the article notes another lot owned by Fox Theater.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/column ... 82777.html

I'm not aware of anything tied to the parking garage other than just meeting general parking needs in the district. I can't imagine the proposed garage would take the entire, lenghty area that is now surface parking along Washington though, so I suppose there will still be room for adjacent infill in the future.

arch city · PostJun 01, 2016#5772016-06-01T17:33+00:00

St. Louis Public Radio: The status of 6 projects on Grand Center’s drawing board

There's also audio on the link.

framer · PostJun 01, 2016#5782016-06-01T18:02+00:00

I just heard that there will not be any retail in the garage. Logistical problems with a tight site.

wabash · PostJun 02, 2016#5792016-06-02T00:25+00:00

framer wrote:Logistical problems with a tight site.

That's laughable. I hope whoever you heard that from was kidding.

imran · PostJun 02, 2016#5802016-06-02T01:54+00:00

A narrow mind may be one example of a tight site with logistical problems.

framer · PostJun 02, 2016#5812016-06-02T01:56+00:00

Hmmm, we seem to have lost a few posts.

...Anyway, my understanding is that the problem is providing access for buses.

wabash · PostJun 02, 2016#5822016-06-02T03:10+00:00

Hasn't Grand Center/Midtown been traumatized enough? How utilized is the enormous retail-free garage 1/2 a block south? Between the Pulitzer, CAM, and Sheldon this could be a really great block of Midtown.

The "Well this garage will facilitate OTHER development that will contribute to the immediate environment" argument just isn't good enough.

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 02, 2016#5832016-06-02T16:10+00:00

Without retail, office, residential, or other use fronting Washington, the garage simply shouldn't be allowed. But of course there is no form based code for Grand Center, no real urban plan, and the city is a passive partner.

Presbyterian · PostJun 02, 2016#5842016-06-02T16:18+00:00

^Welcome back, Alex. Time to slaughter the fatted calf!

I know at one point they looked at the possibility of setting the garage back enough to allow for future retail and even residential. The best I'm hoping for is that the garage will be designed in such a way as to facilitate the addition of retail space in the future... and perhaps future residential above.

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 02, 2016#5852016-06-02T16:21+00:00

Thank you sir...knife being sharpened.

I fear the solution will be a multi-million dollar art installation to attempt to disguise the massive facade.

framer · PostJun 02, 2016#5862016-06-02T16:25+00:00

Yep, welcome back, Alex.

I was told that they did try to squeeze in retail, but the layouts were just too skinny and awkward. I really don't know why buses need to use this new garage; can't they stay on the current lot on the south side of Washington?

STLEnginerd · PostJun 03, 2016#5872016-06-03T01:29+00:00

Wait the problem is accommodating buses.... Why would that even be a requirement? Anyone who says retail is impossible is being ridiculous, the culinaria garage and the one at Washington & Clark are both on narrower parcels and both have street retail.

It is fair to say though that street retail would probably struggle for several years in this location until the remaining area is much more developed. To mandate retail would mean they would be have to risk not being able to lease it possibly for years at their own expense. I would be satisfied if they designed the garage so that retail space could be easily retrofitted into the street face at some point because right now the market for it is weak but in the future(10yrs) I think there will be demand to justify it.

imran · PostJun 03, 2016#5882016-06-03T01:35+00:00

The Argyl garage in the CWE can also serve as a good example to follow. Why don't we learn from our successes ( and failures) ?

wabash · PostJun 03, 2016#5892016-06-03T03:21+00:00

STLEnginerd wrote:I would be satisfied if they designed the garage so that retail space could be easily retrofitted into the street face at some point because right now the market for it is weak but in the future(10yrs) I think there will be demand to justify it.

We've seen that fail before. It should incorporate retail from the start to help activate one of the most important blocks in Midtown. It might not be snatched up immediately, but I could see an arts group or theater troupe, etc... take up a storefront as office space at the very least. If it's not built out, no prospective tenant will want to bother with it, and no owner will be actively marketing it, therefore the idea that it would eventually become retail because of the desirability and foot traffic generated by OTHER projects is faulty. It's a completely antiquated, backwards, and destructive way of approaching parking - at least it certainly is on such a potentially prominent Midtown block.

quincunx · PostJun 03, 2016#5902016-06-03T18:20+00:00

The retail in a garage discussion makes me think of the garage behind Best Buy in Brentwood. I'm surprised businesses want to locate there and are lasting. Not exactly highly visible which is often stated as a priority for biz location.

arch city · PostJun 03, 2016#5912016-06-03T18:59+00:00

Seems like such a missed opportunity to not have retail in the garage.

I sure hope the garage compensates by having a great artsy design.

A Plain Jane garage - minus retail to boot - just can't cut it.

There are practically no retail spaces in Grand Center, which is why pedestrian activity is just modest. There has to be something to draw people in addition to parks and plazas.

Washington Avenue (Boulevard) can be a ghost-town when there are no events so why not have an arts supply store? A costume store? A party supply store? A musical instrument store? A record store? Yes, they do still have them. An arts & tech store? A wine-paint bar?

Grand Center, Inc. should gently pressure Fox Associates to rethink retail for the garage - even it is just a mere 2,500-3,000 square feet. If the problem is that Fox Associates don't want to manage leasing, they could hire firm to do that.

STLrainbow · PostJun 04, 2016#5922016-06-04T18:43+00:00

Well, the rendering for the garage is up over at stltoday.... I'm too depressed to post a link.

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 04, 2016#5932016-06-04T19:27+00:00

OMG. How in the world can this be allowed? There's a remarkable Tadao Ando and Brad Cloepfil buildings - these are significant architectural landmarks. Not to mention the other historic buildings on the block. This is really crazy.

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews ... .image.jpg

Did a quick write-up. Hope it's shared far and wide:

https://nextstl.com/2016/06/design-gran ... cceptable/

framer · PostJun 04, 2016#5942016-06-04T20:45+00:00

I guess they were looking for the lowest-common-denominator.

arch city · PostJun 04, 2016#5952016-06-04T21:09+00:00

When I saw the rendering in the P-D, all I could do is shake my head.

What are they thinking?

Isn't Grand Center supposedly aiming to be a "world-class" arts and entertaiment district?

This is not only laughable, but abominable.

It is downright awful. It does NOTHING to enhance the district. All it does is lift some cars off the surface - and that's it.

All of these awesome new investments on the way in Grand Center and they are essentially nullified by this horrible edifice.

There's nothing either "grand" or "artsy" about it. Looks like a garage for BJC.

Fox Associates (AND GRAND CENTER, INC.) should be ashamed of themselves.

When will St. Louis consistently get it and think outside of the tired ol' box?

wabash · PostJun 05, 2016#5962016-06-05T01:59+00:00

Really sad. I thought the whole point of Grand Center Inc. was to make sure the right decisions are made for the long-run good of the neighborhood. What's the point of having an organization be the steward of a neighborhood if they allow things like this to happen?

user28 · PostJun 07, 2016#5972016-06-07T20:23+00:00

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PostJun 07, 2016#5982016-06-07T20:24+00:00

^ just a picture of the progress on the rooftop bistro

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gary kreie · PostJul 31, 2016#5992016-07-31T00:24+00:00

New piece on Sheldon in Webster Kirkwood Times.

http://www.websterkirkwoodtimes.com/Art ... ments.html

framer · PostJul 31, 2016#6002016-07-31T01:20+00:00

"...state-of-the-art parking garage..."

Grand Center

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