So is SLU also going to teardown the midrise at Grand and Park.
This development sounds intersting. If the city does their job and gets some good urban form, this could be a great linking development tying together SLU, a Sarah Street Metrolink station, and Cortex.
As for the dorm, that is a good question. I would love to throw out the idea that SLU might consider taking down the dorm and intergrating the dorm into the development (which could have a great mixed use potential, with SLU dorms over the retail fronting on Park and the Bigbox fronting a new connecting road through the development, with parking located in lots underneath the highway and along the internal drive, which would really just be an extension of Duncan all the way to Grand.
As for the dorm, that is a good question. I would love to throw out the idea that SLU might consider taking down the dorm and intergrating the dorm into the development (which could have a great mixed use potential, with SLU dorms over the retail fronting on Park and the Bigbox fronting a new connecting road through the development, with parking located in lots underneath the highway and along the internal drive, which would really just be an extension of Duncan all the way to Grand.
My long-standing offer to open a cool bar/music venue if someone fronts the money applies to the Grand Center, too, in case any potential investors were wondering.
Just sayin'.
Just sayin'.
Oh, another interesting thing from her talk: the boarded up building between Laclede's and what will now be known as the "University Heights" apartments. Apparently, SLU wants to buy the property, raze the building, and put in some parking. A real estate person put the value of the property at just under $200k. The owners want $800k. They went to court to have it condemned under eminent domain, but the jury told SLU to pay around $600k for the property. That's still too much in their eyes, so it looks like that building is just going to sit there for some time to come. The market at work.
Also, a developer is interested in purchasing the land and buildings of the Laclede Street Bar/Fat Freddie's Bar. The idea is to demolish both buildings and build a mixed-use development of retail and residential, with Laclede's possibly moving back in to the ground floor retail space as a tenant.
All in all, there was a lot of good stuff in her talk. Way more development planned in the area than I had thought. Definitely a good sign.
Also, a developer is interested in purchasing the land and buildings of the Laclede Street Bar/Fat Freddie's Bar. The idea is to demolish both buildings and build a mixed-use development of retail and residential, with Laclede's possibly moving back in to the ground floor retail space as a tenant.
All in all, there was a lot of good stuff in her talk. Way more development planned in the area than I had thought. Definitely a good sign.
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Two properties on Forest Park being nominated for the National Register:
Jimmy John's Building
Warehouse at Spring and Forest Park
Jimmy John's Building
Warehouse at Spring and Forest Park
steve wrote:Oh, another interesting thing from her talk: the boarded up building between Laclede's and what will now be known as the "University Heights" apartments. Apparently, SLU wants to buy the property, raze the building, and put in some parking. A real estate person put the value of the property at just under $200k. The owners want $800k. They went to court to have it condemned under eminent domain, but the jury told SLU to pay around $600k for the property. That's still too much in their eyes, so it looks like that building is just going to sit there for some time to come. The market at work.
Also, a developer is interested in purchasing the land and buildings of the Laclede Street Bar/Fat Freddie's Bar. The idea is to demolish both buildings and build a mixed-use development of retail and residential, with Laclede's possibly moving back in to the ground floor retail space as a tenant.
All in all, there was a lot of good stuff in her talk. Way more development planned in the area than I had thought. Definitely a good sign.
I would not be in favor of demolishing Laclede Street - it's a great building. It would be nice to see the old BBC property redeveloped though. BBC was a great bar in its day, and I'm amazed that no one has been able to make anything work at that location since it closed.
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It appears that developers what to rehab Forest Park Parkway properties, which is reassuring.
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DeBaliviere wrote:I would not be in favor of demolishing Laclede Street - it's a great building. It would be nice to see the old BBC property redeveloped though. BBC was a great bar in its day, and I'm amazed that no one has been able to make anything work at that location since it closed.
/derail
About 15 years ago, some friends and I almost bought the BBC.
/end
I would love to rehab the storefronts at Enright and Grand.
Opening a bar on Grandel Square would also be quite the project.
Either way there is plenty of both vacant lots and rehabbable buildings ready for investment.
EDIT: Apparently they are warehouses, yet I still like the buildings.
Opening a bar on Grandel Square would also be quite the project.
Either way there is plenty of both vacant lots and rehabbable buildings ready for investment.
EDIT: Apparently they are warehouses, yet I still like the buildings.
I noticed on Craig's List a 10,000 sq. ft. loft apartment somewhere in Grand Center. The monthly rent? $9600!!!!!!!!!!
SLU: "-Statues - some love 'em, some hate 'em"
What IS the deal with all those statues? The campus is very nice, besides those things if you ask me. They look like Sam's Club, kitschy "art". The dolphins in the pond...wow
As for Grand Center, it does seem like things are FINALLY happening but as I've said repeatedly in here. Grand Center Inc. is the biggest impediment to the success or redevelopment of Grand Center. I heard this from someone who is involved with the CID for Grand Center and he has lived in the neighborhood for 20 + years. He might be the one that knows...
What IS the deal with all those statues? The campus is very nice, besides those things if you ask me. They look like Sam's Club, kitschy "art". The dolphins in the pond...wow
As for Grand Center, it does seem like things are FINALLY happening but as I've said repeatedly in here. Grand Center Inc. is the biggest impediment to the success or redevelopment of Grand Center. I heard this from someone who is involved with the CID for Grand Center and he has lived in the neighborhood for 20 + years. He might be the one that knows...
steve wrote:The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Of course, it could be argued that SLU had to "build a fortress", given the surrounding neighborhood at the time.
*Sigh* Save your breath, CS. This forum is convinced that Biondi and SLUCORP, Inc., are hellbent on destroying the city to recreate O'Fallon.
My father attended SLU in the late 70's and graduated early 80's, bachelors to masters, and said they really didn't need to make it how it is today. He thinks the motivation was due to possibly decreasing enrollment from out of City kids due to an anti-City stigma. He told me he never had any personal issues with crime.
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Doug wrote:steve wrote:The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Of course, it could be argued that SLU had to "build a fortress", given the surrounding neighborhood at the time.
*Sigh* Save your breath, CS. This forum is convinced that Biondi and SLUCORP, Inc., are hellbent on destroying the city to recreate O'Fallon.
My father attended SLU in the late 70's and graduated early 80's, bachelors to masters, and said they really didn't need to make it how it is today. He thinks the motivation was due to possibly decreasing enrollment from out of City kids due to an anti-City stigma. He told me he never had any personal issues with crime.
Other people did have issues with crime.
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Jeff707 wrote:But other people didn't.
Which shows the value of anecdotal evidence - almost zero.
You are the one that used anecdotal evidence for an argument, not me.
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Jeff707 wrote:You are the one that used anecdotal evidence for an argument, not me.
No, I believe Doug was the first.
Carry on...
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JCity wrote:What IS the deal with all those statues? The campus is very nice, besides those things if you ask me. They look like Sam's Club, kitschy "art". The dolphins in the pond...wow
Next thing you know, we'll see a statue of dogs playing poker in a prominent location.
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ThreeOneFour wrote:JCity wrote:What IS the deal with all those statues? The campus is very nice, besides those things if you ask me. They look like Sam's Club, kitschy "art". The dolphins in the pond...wow
Next thing you know, we'll see a statue of dogs playing poker in a prominent location.
That's actually planned for a site next to the Kung Fu Bunny in front of the Scottrade Center.
The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Jeff707 wrote:You are the one that used anecdotal evidence for an argument, not me.
No, I believe Doug was the first.
Carry on...
It's easy to carry this discussion beyond the anecdotal -- just get the data from SLU Campus Security. I know they track crimes in the area and crimes against students, because I'd get the "Campus Security Alert" emails -- usually about one a month, but more in the fall.
Whether the "fenced compound" approach was necessary or not, I can tell you that many of the muggings and assaults they reported to us while I was a student (2003-2006) occured either (a) just north of campus on the other side of lindell, or (b) along grand, between campus and the metro stop.
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my girlfriend transfered from slu after just one semester. it wasnt the emails sent to all slu students about students who had been mugged that scared her. it was the "non-student st louis residents" who harassed her on her way to class from the olive garage.
Tysalpha wrote:The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Jeff707 wrote:You are the one that used anecdotal evidence for an argument, not me.
No, I believe Doug was the first.
Carry on...
It's easy to carry this discussion beyond the anecdotal -- just get the data from SLU Campus Security. I know they track crimes in the area and crimes against students, because I'd get the "Campus Security Alert" emails -- usually about one a month, but more in the fall.
Whether the "fenced compound" approach was necessary or not, I can tell you that many of the muggings and assaults they reported to us while I was a student (2003-2006) occured either (a) just north of campus on the other side of lindell, or (b) along grand, between campus and the metro stop.
Maybe the jackasses shouldn't have put the Metro Stop is such a horrible location? You know I wonder why someone might get mugged walking on a bridge surrounded by concrete barriers and traffic? Possibly because its hard to get away? When I am getting happy at the Moolah I will be sure to watch out for the midnight muggers.
I never said my example was empirical. I wanted a response from those who might know more about the past situations in this neighborhood.
I attended SLU at the same time as your dad did. I lived in what was then Lewis Hall, now the Coronado. (One of my friends lived in Laclede Town in 1982 as well.)
In those days, SLU was part of the urban fabric. Some of that fabric was pretty frayed, but lots of it, now gone, was very cool. Sodality Hall, DeSmet Hall, the old Resurrectionist House -- all were architecturally distinctive.
Lots of the demolition that took place was financially reasonable, albeit at least in part because the administration had spent so little on maintenance on the buildings. But that avoids your question about first-hand experience with crime.
For the first half of my college career, I drove in every day and parked on the street. Never a single problem. When we lived in Lewis, we could frequently hear gunshots at night in the distance, but we had the common sense not to walk a certain distance away from campus in given directions. Conversely, we frequently walked all the way downtown.
I can't argue with how good the campus now looks, but SLU consciously took an approach -- someone else used the word "fortress," which is the same word I use -- that was completely different than, say, Wash U. And having grown up in U. City, I can attest that the neighborhoods north of the Loop and in Skinker-DeBaliviere had spots every bit as rough as the areas immediately north of SLU. Probably even more so, because north of SLU was largely uninhabited. Wash U reached out and help redevelop; SLU enclosed itself. 25 years later, I think it's clear whether the Loop or Grand Center had the better long-term result.
In those days, SLU was part of the urban fabric. Some of that fabric was pretty frayed, but lots of it, now gone, was very cool. Sodality Hall, DeSmet Hall, the old Resurrectionist House -- all were architecturally distinctive.
Lots of the demolition that took place was financially reasonable, albeit at least in part because the administration had spent so little on maintenance on the buildings. But that avoids your question about first-hand experience with crime.
For the first half of my college career, I drove in every day and parked on the street. Never a single problem. When we lived in Lewis, we could frequently hear gunshots at night in the distance, but we had the common sense not to walk a certain distance away from campus in given directions. Conversely, we frequently walked all the way downtown.
I can't argue with how good the campus now looks, but SLU consciously took an approach -- someone else used the word "fortress," which is the same word I use -- that was completely different than, say, Wash U. And having grown up in U. City, I can attest that the neighborhoods north of the Loop and in Skinker-DeBaliviere had spots every bit as rough as the areas immediately north of SLU. Probably even more so, because north of SLU was largely uninhabited. Wash U reached out and help redevelop; SLU enclosed itself. 25 years later, I think it's clear whether the Loop or Grand Center had the better long-term result.