urbanSTL

Two separate arguments. I can agree with Bob that the city didn’t go far enough AND that the proposal wasn’t highest or best use.

That being said, the area is a long standing industrial corridor. It’s not unreasonable to expect the city at least entertain or share with residents a proposal.

They already sought and obtained the residents input. Now we need to go back to the residents when we know Clark is going to put his finger on the scales?

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:They already sought and obtained the residents input. Now we need to go back to the residents when we know Clark is going to put his finger on the scales?

Yes we do.

I’d have to see the engagement materials. Unfortunately, I am also aware how lost government can get following anecdotes from residents/neighbors who aren’t given enough information to make an appropriate decision. I’ve seen multiple initiatives gently influenced by survey phrasing.

I’m curious. I assume city residents who want to see income grow to support services are also curious. If this proposal were put in front of residents today would they elect to wait until the current commercial reality changes? Could be soon, could be two decades.

Clark went on 550 yesterday to continue his offensive against the City and the SLDC.



Apologies if anyone has trouble with the link. The interview is easy to find with a google search.

He blames the city for having no comprehensive or strategic development plan. This isn’t correct. Here’s the plan: https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... ment__.pdf

And as we all know, public input sessions are being held regularly for an updated plan.

He regularly describes his plan as “30, 40, 50 million dollar investment”, so he doesn’t even really know what he’s going to build there yet.

Bob goes on to say that Bob Orr is a “smart, good guy”. Which is a funny thing to say about a man you just more or less doxxed and publicly dragged online. Suggests that Mr. Clark really isn’t a very thoughtful person (derp).

Would Clark's project be a good fit at Chouteau's Landing?

Bob Clark constantly has sore arms from padding himself on the back.

Based on recent LinkedIn activity, Bob Clark and Neal Richardson have agreed to meet together to get the public’s opinion on the plan for the site. Exactly what should be happening.

framer wrote: ↑

Jan 20, 2024

Would Clark's project be a good fit at Chouteau's Landing?

Very likely yes. And the current move to Cool Valley would have certainly been a tremendous fit for Chouteau’s Landing. But you notice Bob is really only interested in thinking big when he’s spending other peoples’ money or has the opportunity to win lucrative contracts.

When listening to the bloviated musing of businessman on civic matters, it helps to bear in mind that they have two primary concerns: (1) maximizing the income of their business and (2) maximizing the enterprise value of their business. Anything they say about supporting the community, neighborhoods, “the city”, infrastructure, jobs, etc. etc., are, at best, third, fourth and fifth order considerations.

I’m rather glad our civil servants don’t simply allow men like Bob Clark to run roughshod over them which is exactly how Bob Clark would prefer it.

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:

framer wrote: ↑

Jan 20, 2024

Would Clark's project be a good fit at Chouteau's Landing?

Very likely yes. And the current move to Cool Valley would have certainly been a tremendous fit for Chouteau’s Landing. But you notice Bob is really only interested in thinking big when he’s spending other peoples’ money or has the opportunity to win lucrative contracts.

When listening to the bloviated musing of businessman on civic matters, it helps to bear in mind that they have two primary concerns: (1) maximizing the income of their business and (2) maximizing the enterprise value of their business. Anything they say about supporting the community, neighborhoods, “the city”, infrastructure, jobs, etc. etc., are, at best, third, fourth and fifth order considerations.

I’m rather glad our civil servants don’t simply allow men like Bob Clark to run roughshod over them which is exactly how Bob Clark would prefer it.

Bob Clark isn’t the most likable guy in the world. I think everyone gets it at this point. Let’s focus on what’s best for the neighborhood and its residents.

We are talking about a sizeable investment in a plot of land that hasn’t had any momentum in a long time and doesn’t really have any prospects in the foreseeable future.

It’s a $30M minority training center in a poor black neighborhood adjacent to a tract of land that has been industrial for some time. It’s worth reengaging with the residents of the neighborhood to see if we can come to an agreement and potentially spur some meaningful retail development as they have desired.

If it ends up in Chouteau’s Landing, that’s great. But don’t expect an opportunity to come up at this spot in North City anytime soon.

What’s dumb about this is that SLDC held extensive public engagement to develop the RFP and residence wanted retail, also under no circumstances is it urban planning 101 what he is saying. None.

Looks like a pretty low-productivity land use. Would it occupy the whole 16.5 acres?

One thing I’ve learned over the last week is STLs biz community on LinkedIn is bunch of ass kissing simpletons. If one told one of them “you’re mother is a whore” they respond w/ “you know you aren’t wrong , let’s discuss that and how my ditch digging company can help you”

dbInSouthCity wrote:One thing I’ve learned over the last week is STLs biz community on LinkedIn is bunch of ass kissing simpletons. If one told one of them “you’re mother is a whore” they respond w/ “you know you aren’t wrong , let’s discuss that and how my ditch digging company can help you”

I think that’s just LinkedIn overall…

The first post in this thread is from 16 years ago specifically for a retail development that never got off the ground. It then goes completely dark for 15 years.  What has changed in that time to suggest now is the time retail is going to work?  How many retail proposals did this RFP generate?

TalkinDev wrote:The first post in this thread is from 16 years ago specifically for a retail development that never got off the ground. It then goes completely dark for 15 years.  What has changed in that time to suggest now is the time retail is going to work?  How many retail proposals did this RFP generate?

Nothing’s changed, other than you could argue the area has gotten less attractive to retail.

But let’s stick with the status quo for another 16 years at the expense of the poor, black residents of the neighborhood since we are irritated by the LinkedIn activity of those pushing for more dialogue on the proposal.

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑

Jan 23, 2024

so I don't think  the plan as presented is great for the city.  Bob Clark is proposing to take one of the most prime parcels in the footprint for low density light industrial.  This proposal is not what they want and it doesn't even more the needle toward what they really want and if anything it makes what they really want less achievable because the premium portion of the site is allocated to low density light industrial.

If he was open to a parcel within the massive footprint outlined in a previous post, one without frontage directly on Goodfellow then i think they should be open to considering it.  As it stands maybe Orr was a bit curt but he was right to pass on the proposal. IMHO

Not to mention that low density light industrial probably makes the neighboring homes less attractive both to current residents and for attracting new residents in the future.

TalkinDev wrote: ↑

Jan 23, 2024

The first post in this thread is from 16 years ago specifically for a retail development that never got off the ground. It then goes completely dark for 15 years.  What has changed in that time to suggest now is the time retail is going to work?  How many retail proposals did this RFP generate?

It's unfortunate, but you're correct. Can't be too choosy when it comes to developments in that area. Used to do outreach in that area, retail would hard-pressed to succeed there.

Bob Clark’s Concrete Strategies is one of the contractors fighting the city’s eminent domain price of the RX. This adds some interesting context to Concrete Strategies’ (Clark’s) vocal exit from the City earlier this year. And given Bob’s known penchant for pettiness, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if this was a factor in temper tantrum.

The City began publicly exploring eminent domain for RX in Oct 2023.