My understanding from my dad (who I'd put at like a 75 - 80% probability of being a reliable source) is that Walmart does not plan to have a presence within the city limits of St. Louis. If someone else has heard rumors to contradict this, I'm not going to argue with them, but my understanding is that Walmart would not build a store with an STL City address.
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That site is huge. You could fit a Walmart/SamClub on just the smaller parcel west of Goodfellow. This is one part of the city where something like a Walmart would actually help people IMO. And its strategically a good place for one (based on geographic location relative to other stores) if you disregard the income demographics.
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I agree it would be hugely beneficial for the residents of North City, but I work with Walmart/Sam’s in a professional capacity (unfortunately). There is simply no chance they decide to locate in North City any time in the foreseeable future.STLEnginerd wrote:That site is huge. You could fit a Walmart/SamClub on just the smaller parcel west of Goodfellow. This is one part of the city where something like a Walmart would actually help people IMO. And its strategically a good place for one (based on geographic location relative to other stores) if you disregard the income demographics.
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not too surprising, sadlyDebaliviere91 wrote: ↑Oct 17, 2023I agree it would be hugely beneficial for the residents of North City, but I work with Walmart/Sam’s in a professional capacity (unfortunately). There is simply no chance they decide to locate in North City any time in the foreseeable future.STLEnginerd wrote:That site is huge. You could fit a Walmart/SamClub on just the smaller parcel west of Goodfellow. This is one part of the city where something like a Walmart would actually help people IMO. And its strategically a good place for one (based on geographic location relative to other stores) if you disregard the income demographics.
And where is the redo of the mess at Grand and Forest Park Parkway??
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Didn’t Walmart just a close a bunch of stores in black communities in Chicago and other cities? Seems an unlikely candidate.
Bring on the Meier!
Bring on the Meier!
If you’re not watching the LinkedIn dialogue, you’re missing a show.
Clayco’s chief pitched a major project for a north St. Louis lot. The city said no.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/bus ... p-homepage
The LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jarradho ... member_ios
Clayco’s chief pitched a major project for a north St. Louis lot. The city said no.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/bus ... p-homepage
The LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jarradho ... member_ios
Based on the emails that Bob has shared, I am not happy with SLDC’s involvement here.
Clayco didn’t provide a good proposal for the site. The city is entitled to have plans and expectations for the site. Fine.
BUT Robert Orr’s email didn’t provide legitimate alternatives. It didn’t sit down with Clayco. It didn’t provide evidence that retail could work. Generally, it seemed massively dismissive.
Not sure if it’s because Bob has ruffled feathers in the past or what, but it’s not the type of response I would expect from a city struggling to maintain manufacturing jobs.
Clayco didn’t provide a good proposal for the site. The city is entitled to have plans and expectations for the site. Fine.
BUT Robert Orr’s email didn’t provide legitimate alternatives. It didn’t sit down with Clayco. It didn’t provide evidence that retail could work. Generally, it seemed massively dismissive.
Not sure if it’s because Bob has ruffled feathers in the past or what, but it’s not the type of response I would expect from a city struggling to maintain manufacturing jobs.
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How many proposed developments are Mr. Orr and his team overseeing at any given time? I suspect it’s a large number and that most, if not all of those other proposals, generally conform to the RFP.
Mr. Clark thinks he’s a very special boy who’s smarter than anyone in city hall and that the city should just do whatever he thinks should be done. If he wanted that kind of clout he should have moved his HQ downtown instead of running off to Chicago.
Bob saw a site just down 64 from Clayco’s new office off of Hanley and he wanted it regardless of the RFP and the City’s Strategic Land Use Plan. He feels he’s entitled to it because he’s just another businessman from the County who thinks the city is a resource to be exploited and not partner in development.
Good for Neal and the SLDC.
Mr. Clark thinks he’s a very special boy who’s smarter than anyone in city hall and that the city should just do whatever he thinks should be done. If he wanted that kind of clout he should have moved his HQ downtown instead of running off to Chicago.
Bob saw a site just down 64 from Clayco’s new office off of Hanley and he wanted it regardless of the RFP and the City’s Strategic Land Use Plan. He feels he’s entitled to it because he’s just another businessman from the County who thinks the city is a resource to be exploited and not partner in development.
Good for Neal and the SLDC.
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Mr Clark probably is smarter than anyone at City Hall and it’s crazy to dismiss this proposal without any sort of dialogue.JaneJacobsGhost wrote:How many proposed developments are Mr. Orr and his team overseeing at any given time? I suspect it’s a large number and that most, if not all of those other proposals, generally conform to the RFP.
Mr. Clark thinks he’s a very special boy who’s smarter than anyone in city hall and that the city should just do whatever he thinks should be done. If he wanted that kind of clout he should have moved his HQ downtown instead of running off to Chicago
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I’m not going to argue that Clayco’s proposal for the site was the right one. Just saying that Nashville and Indianapolis aren’t responding with such disregard when developers come knocking.
Bob had his company and a subsidiary spend time planning a $30M investment to relocate 50 jobs and create a training facility. To some extent, he is serious about the opportunity to make an investment.
SLDC should’ve been much more appreciative of the effort spent and should’ve seen an opportunity to go above and beyond
Bob had his company and a subsidiary spend time planning a $30M investment to relocate 50 jobs and create a training facility. To some extent, he is serious about the opportunity to make an investment.
SLDC should’ve been much more appreciative of the effort spent and should’ve seen an opportunity to go above and beyond
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You clearly haven’t read any of the articles or the posts. There was dialogue. The city was excited for the proposal and offered many alternative/more appropriate sites. Clayco rejected them seemingly without consideration.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Jan 19, 2024Mr Clark probably is smarter than anyone at City Hall and it’s crazy to dismiss this proposal without any sort of dialogue.JaneJacobsGhost wrote:How many proposed developments are Mr. Orr and his team overseeing at any given time? I suspect it’s a large number and that most, if not all of those other proposals, generally conform to the RFP.
Mr. Clark thinks he’s a very special boy who’s smarter than anyone in city hall and that the city should just do whatever he thinks should be done. If he wanted that kind of clout he should have moved his HQ downtown instead of running off to Chicago
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Bob Clark literally cut and copied the email from Orr. The extent of SLDCs alternative was “contact Green Street”.JaneJacobsGhost wrote:You clearly haven’t read any of the articles or the posts. There was dialogue. The city was excited for the proposal and offered many alternative/more appropriate sites and the Clayco didn’t entertain them.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Jan 19, 2024Mr Clark probably is smarter than anyone at City Hall and it’s crazy to dismiss this proposal without any sort of dialogue.JaneJacobsGhost wrote:How many proposed developments are Mr. Orr and his team overseeing at any given time? I suspect it’s a large number and that most, if not all of those other proposals, generally conform to the RFP.
Mr. Clark thinks he’s a very special boy who’s smarter than anyone in city hall and that the city should just do whatever he thinks should be done. If he wanted that kind of clout he should have moved his HQ downtown instead of running off to Chicago
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There was dialogues and the only party that was dismissive was Clayco.
Isn't Concrete Strategies already in the city on N Broadway, and really close to this location? This plot has great visibility from the highway and I assume that is why he wants it there vs where they're at now.
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Can you paste it here? I’m not seeing it in the article or LinkedIn.addxb2 wrote: ↑Jan 19, 2024Bob Clark literally cut and copied the email from Orr. The extent of SLDCs alternative was “contact Green Street”.JaneJacobsGhost wrote:You clearly haven’t read any of the articles or the posts. There was dialogue. The city was excited for the proposal and offered many alternative/more appropriate sites and the Clayco didn’t entertain them.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Jan 19, 2024Mr Clark probably is smarter than anyone at City Hall and it’s crazy to dismiss this proposal without any sort of dialogue.
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There was dialogues and the only party that was dismissive was Clayco.
Here is how SLDC should’ve responded.
“Thank you and your team for the hard work in developing a proposal for the site.
As outlined in the RFP, we have a focus of delivering retail for the neighborhood. I recommend that you revise the proposal to include that priority. If necessary, outline what support is needed from the City to guarantee a retail component.
I have also attached a summary of alternative sites that SLDC believes could accommodate your proposal as submitted. I am happy to review in more detail and make necessary connections.”
“Thank you and your team for the hard work in developing a proposal for the site.
As outlined in the RFP, we have a focus of delivering retail for the neighborhood. I recommend that you revise the proposal to include that priority. If necessary, outline what support is needed from the City to guarantee a retail component.
I have also attached a summary of alternative sites that SLDC believes could accommodate your proposal as submitted. I am happy to review in more detail and make necessary connections.”
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Ok, so Clayco low balled the City for the site on top of submitting a non-conforming proposal.
It looks like Orr pointed out a specific parcel that was better suited for the use (and likely the price although I’m inferring a bit there) and didn’t merely say, “Contact Green Street”. We also don’t know how many other emails were sent. Bob only shared this one.
Further, Bob’s comments in the LinkedIn chain are pretty gross. Basically calling civil servants bureaucrats and claiming it’s all about elections. And then threatening that the company is moving out of the city altogether like PFS (if PFS’ move was the city’s fault, this is the first I’ve heard about it). And generally making fun of the city for PFS’ move.
Bob is like the local Elon Musk. It’s really annoying and unbecoming
Eh, I relate to Bob. I’m a bit manic and wear my heart on my sleeve, especially when it comes to St. Louis. When I’m frustrated with bureaucrats and politicians who frequently seem more preoccupied with making themselves look successful… it’s very easy to just lay it out there.
Bob is a successful person who has no reason to stay here and say anything. I’d prefer he remain passionate and a bit eccentric then move on.
Also, why should I have faith that the city’s expectations are accurate? They had a proposal for double pre-pandemic? Ok… and were those proposals successful? Obviously not. Either the city botched negotiations or the developers over bid. Both support Clark’s point.
Bob is a successful person who has no reason to stay here and say anything. I’d prefer he remain passionate and a bit eccentric then move on.
Also, why should I have faith that the city’s expectations are accurate? They had a proposal for double pre-pandemic? Ok… and were those proposals successful? Obviously not. Either the city botched negotiations or the developers over bid. Both support Clark’s point.
What gets me about the city is their desired for primarily "retail" establishments. Retail, seriously? The demographics for that area is approximately $35k a household. What retail outfit will move there? A Schnucks, Dierbergs, Target, Startbucks? No, what you will get is another "Family Dollar". Let's get serious, create the jobs for the community 1st and retail will follow, it's not the other way around!
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^this. We are long, long, way from desirable or impactful retail at this site.courtland wrote:What gets me about the city is their desired for primarily "retail" establishments. Retail, seriously? The demographics for that area is approximately $35k a household. What retail outfit will move there? A Schnucks, Dierbergs, Target, Startbucks? No, what you will get is another "Family Dollar". Let's get serious, create the jobs for the community 1st and retail will follow, it's not the other way around!
Additionally, we don’t have a ton of leverage on asking price when it’s sat vacant for so long.
Put personal feelings about Bob aside, and engage in good faith negotiations to get something done with CLAYCO here.
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Orr outlined the specific reasons for rejecting the proposal and specifically suggested an alternate site, I'm not sure what the problem is. The Clayco proposal is not a good use to put on a plot that is directly adjacent to residential neighborhoods. I think the city is right to reject the Clayco facility in this location.
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The RFP was created with the input from local residents. Black residents.
To permit this development would maintain the status quo of disregarding black peoples’ desires for their neighborhoods in favor of kotowing to white businessmen. How’s that worked out for the City or the region the last 100 years?
To permit this development would maintain the status quo of disregarding black peoples’ desires for their neighborhoods in favor of kotowing to white businessmen. How’s that worked out for the City or the region the last 100 years?