http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... enDocument

Glen Carbon getting retail, entertainment project at busy intersection

By Tim Bryant

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

03/23/2009



GLEN CARBON -- A development group is proposing to build a massive retail and entertainment project on a 900-acre site in Glen Carbon.



Plans for project, called University Town Center, calls for stores, restaurants and entertainment businesses to be built on the site at the intersection of Interstate 270, Illinois Route 157, Interstate 255 and Illinois Route 162.



University Town Center Development, the project’s development team, hopes site work will begin within 18 to 24 months. Bruce Holland, president of Swansea-based Holland Construction Services, is the managing member of the University Town Center Development.



The development team estimates that at full operation the development would have 3,100 full-time equivalent jobs and produce annual property taxes of more than $16 million.



During the construction phase, the project is expected to provide about 10,000 construction jobs, the team said.

Just what we need: another huge suburban development.



I'm trying to figure out what retail stores will move into this development? Besides WalMart moving here, a lot of the big-box retail is already covered in brand new developments in Glen Carbon.

Dredger wrote:Better yet, where is the new soccer stadium? Where was the bill requesting STAR bonds for the Collinsville project? The pay to play in Metro East is alive and well. A MLS franchise would be the only unique entertainment offer out their.



I wish the PD could at least use some proper wording. The developer is planning a development as the Business Journal reported. That accurately states the reality of this project.

What did the Business Journal article say?



Like I said, besides adding a Super Walmart and maybe a Sams: what other big box retail could they add that's not already covered on Troy Rd and 159?

Moorlander wrote:they just said on the news that this project is SO BIG that Chesterfield Commons could fit easily in one corner.

I wish we hade a puke emoticon. But I'll settle with this for now.



:bash:

Well, you all can disagree with the form of the development, but the fact is that this is another billion dollar development in the Metro East (yes, I know it is still a proposal). Plus, it will lead to more housing, more infrastructure, more jobs, etc.



The Metro East is coming along pretty fast now and is regularly contributing billion dollar projects into the local economy. I hope that the rest of the city is taking note and a lot of that "don't cross the river" nonsense is subsiding.

Can admin please change it to GLEN Carbon?

bprop wrote:
My guess is that it will continue to be a zero sum game.



Also, I'm not sure how "more infrastructure" is an advantage when it's just spread over more area. Maybe I don't know what you mean by infrastructure? More parking lots? Storm sewers? Detention ponds? Traffic signals? What other infrastructure would a giant strip mall bring?

Yep, all of that. Plus all the secondary infrastructure that comes with that such as new housing, expanded roadways (157 & 162 will both probably need to be expanded), transmission lines, sewer lines ... basically all the stuff that is needed to make a city (or in this case suburb) run. On top of that there will be all the subsequent development. Pontoon Beach will probably grow rapidly and Granite will probably also see benefits from this. It will also help SIUE, which seems close or already haven overtaken UMSL as the third most important university in the region. Also, it's a little soon to classify it as a strip mall.



As far as zero-sum, well, that's fine by me. It is either here, 8-9 miles from the city or Wentzville 30-40+ miles from downtown. I know most posters here are Missouri folks, so they probably don't love to see development in Illinois, but I would rather see it in Illinois, whatever the form. I hate O'Fallon, MO - in some ways it feels closer to Columbia to me than downtown. Forget seeing the city skyscrapers, which you can do from a lot of the new Illinois development, you can't even drive to the skyscrapers in an hour (of course, unless you are talking about Clayton).



Plus, I just prefer Illinois for development. They are more proactive. We build better roads, plan for development, integrate more mass transit, and are just generally more on top of things from a regulatory standpoint. Yes, that might mean higher taxes, but that is what pays for the improved infrastructure. For instance, this development is actually going to HELP make the case for a second Metro line in Illinois, that will run through this development and up to SIUE. I think that is going to wind up being part of this proposal eventually. Cooper planned for it in his soccer development and SIUE wants it sooner rather than later, this would just help make that case.



Obviously everyone would rather have more skyscrapers downtown. Well, outside of Roberts, that ain't happening right now. We got softball parks developing on the most prime real estate in all of Missouri. So, a development on this scale is welcome news in my book. Sure, it might wind up being a massive failure and it is probably going to be pretty eco-unfriendly. But Missouri has sprawled for decades. It is Illinois' turn now.

I'm not sure what good can be said about this project - let's hope that an Edwardsville Metrolink line would go right through the middle of it I guess.

What stores can they add that aren't already in Glen Carbon along Troy Rd? Circuit City? Linens N Things? Can they really find enough retail to fill this monster?

^ doubtful they would get Circuit City or Linens-N-Things. You're so 2008!

I have to agree with the Egyptian on this one: this is a good thing that should be appreciated. While I will rapidly agree that this site will not necessarily be known as one of the more favored type of developments (historical redevelopment, LEED certified, urban, modernist, in the City, etc.), it will be positioned to produce things that are also very much needed and too often unseen: revenue generation for the Metro East. As much of the area could use increases in their tax bases, this is a good thing. Further, it increases the marketability of the 255 loop for industrial development, providing better opportunities for logistical relocation to the area through quality of life improvement. And, like the Saint Louis Mills mall, it's something that I'll never see, but the revenues from which will lead to a better quality of life for others (and it's not MO bonds being taken out for this). May the success of this spread to increased near east side redevelopment.

The problem is that this is VERY unlikely to generate new tax revenue for the east side. Why? To do so there would have to be more residents on the east side - are people going to move there because of this development? Or the people already there would have to spend more money. Or the people already there would have to buy in Illinois instead of Missouri. As noted, just about every retail option exists on the east side already. This will simply shuffle the deck and promote more driving and more roads.

Grover wrote:The problem is that this is VERY unlikely to generate new tax revenue for the east side. Why? To do so there would have to be more residents on the east side - are people going to move there because of this development? Or the people already there would have to spend more money. Or the people already there would have to buy in Illinois instead of Missouri. As noted, just about every retail option exists on the east side already. This will simply shuffle the deck and promote more driving and more roads.

Have faith in the new world of banking & lending to make things right.



If there's deomnstrable demand for more & sustainable retail, they'll get the lending.

If there's not, then the funding won't appear, & the project won't be built.

If they're expecting to just cannibalize, they won't get much funding.



I believe that, if they're far enough along to announce, then they must have enough studies done to support their positions. Otherwise, they'd be making asses of themselves announcing something that they can't technically do.



Plus, if they're dependent on MO consumers, they never would have announced the project with the increases in sales taxes forthcoming by Springfield, needed to cover the giant red gaps in the State's budget, while MO remains the same. You hear of IL smokers coming to MO to buy Marlboros because of the taxes; should similar rates be in place for regular retail, they won't have MO shoppers driving to IL.



My thought: If this can spur increased development of the 255 loop for warehousing & logistics, then I'm in favor of it.



And I hate strip malls & "lifestyle centers".

Gone Corporate wrote:If they're expecting to just cannibalize, they won't get much funding.

Not true - if they're expecting to cannibalize and can show a bank that they will do it well, they will get all the funding they need. Banks don't care if there are more customers in a geographic area or whether a project will increase tax revenue, they only care if the new project will make money.

See, there you go Dredger. That's how you turn this into a positive.



Really on that map, both the orange and pink options touch this location. If they are building a mall type thing anyway, one requirement should be a giant park and ride facility with a garage. Even though the commute from this location is not that substantial, you would still get a lot of park and ride business to avoid downtown parking rates and just because it is my perception that regular folks just sort of like the Metro on the east side of the river. Obviously it would thrive for ballgames and whatnot, but even for everyday commutes an easy to use facility where there is covered parking and a nice waiting area for trains would work, I am sure.



The SSS is a little tougher deal because Cooper was negotiating city by city instead of region. Glen Carbon and Collinsville would have to be able to work together and I am not sure the likelihood of that happening if this is seen as taking a development from Collinsville and plopping it in Glen Carbon's taxing district. That's a tough call. Nevertheless, I would think that Glen Carbon and the developer of this thing would be willing to talk to Cooper now that the bid has been denied this time and the Collinsville support is in doubt. If the developer wants an anchor tenant that spurs interest and surrounding development ... well, that's exactly what Cooper potentially has if he can ever find a billionaire to sign on.



This kind of development is going to happen on the Metro East side in the near future whether we like it or not and generally it is a good thing. But, it can be even better if we are proactive like Dredger points out and incorporate some more healthy developments as well.