My problem with the Mansion House complex is how it interacts with the street - its entrances are set back and have driveways in front of them.

I actually like the Mansion House and its sister buildings. I think they represent a unique era in urban architecture and I like black highrises. They are cool. I have no prob with them whatsoever.

I don't mind the Mansion House buildings either. There are plenty of other spaces downtown that should be renovated before these buildings. The setbacks on 4th Street aren't bad either. People are always sitting on the fountain and interacting. It's not dead space. It's the other side of the buildings that needs to be fixed. From the Adams Mark north to Washington Ave. facing the Arch. There should be street level retail along here. That sidewalk should be loaded with foot traffic between the Arch-Lacledes-Washington Ave. Are there any plans to fix this when the cap is put on I-70?

I think the Mansion House Apartments look rather shoddy from far away. Up close, I actually like them. Plus, I'd love to live there just for the view.

Matt Drops The H wrote:I think the Mansion House Apartments look rather shoddy from far away. Up close, I actually like them. Plus, I'd love to live there just for the view.

I used to live there. It is a killer view, but the noise from I-70 is too much. If you have your balcony door open, you can't hear much else.

^



Maybe the lid they're putting over 70 will muffle the noise?

Matt Drops The H wrote:^



Maybe the lid they're putting over 70 will muffle the noise?

My apartment faced north, so most of the noise I was getting came from the raised section of the highway. The lid should help with noise on the south facing apartments, who also pay more per month to get the view of the Arch. I would imagine the noise is less the higher up you are also, which also costs more per month. I stayed on the 14th, which is less than halfway up.

This kind of came out of nowhere. I remember hearing a mention of renovations to the existing buildings, but not of a new 14 story condo building.





<A HREF="http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... ">Landmark apartments may be sold for debt</a>

By Tavia Evans

Of the Post-Dispatch

07/13/2005



The Mansion House apartments in downtown St. Louis may go on the block this month if the owners are unable to bail the property out of debt.



The property, at 300 North Fourth Street, is scheduled for a trustee's sale on July 25 at the St. Louis Civil Courts building. Mansion House is owned by Value St. Louis Associates, which acquired the property in 1988 at a foreclosure sale.



"They are renegotiating their debt with the lender and are optimistic they will be able to resolve that before the auction," said spokeswoman Julie Hauser.



A possible sale may put a proposed $25 million redevelopment project for the building on hold. The owners had planned to renovate the building's 416 residential units on 29 floors.



Two neighboring buildings on North Fourth, collectively known as the Mansion House Center, also may have to table redevelopment plans, including a new 14-story residential tower.



.......



Integrity is proposing a $115 million project that includes building a 14-story condominium tower at the southeast corner of Washington Avenue and North Fourth. Plans also include a facelift for the exterior of the building at 400 North Fourth, and improvements to the 411 residential units there.



"We don't believe there are lenders who will finance the types of improvements we want to make on this project when you have 35 years left on the lease," said Greg Smith, a lawyer representing Integrity.



<A HREF="http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... 3E00127B25"> >>> Continue reading rest of story

I like the sound of a 14-story residential building on 4th Street. Right now there is a three-story office building on that site, so the proposed building would be great for adding a little density to the area. That site will be even more attractive once the STL Centre skybridge is demolished.

What a mess that is.



I've always had a little contempt for those buildings...they're just so ugly, IMO. I thought it would be cool to rip them down and build a bigger building on that site, a little higher too. Not that it was ever a plausible idea, just something I thought would look better.



That property is just a mess, and how screwy is it for the land to be owned by one party, and the buildings by another.

Mansion House towers ugly? I strongly disagree. I've always felt they gave the Riverfront area a certain elegance. The scale and layout of the towers are perfect for the site. The facades of the buildings have a nice rhythm, with the balconies and the changing patterns of window shades. It reminds me a bit of Chicago's lakefront apartment towers, but on a St. Louis scale. I think the street level interaction could be improved a bit, though.

I also like the towers very much, just hate the pedestal they sit on. If the street grid could only be restored it would do wonders for both riverfront and pedestrian circulation. It would also present a much better face of the city to drivers on highway 70. At one point in the late 80's there was a proposal to tear down most of the complex and build new buildings. The drawings were imaginative, I only wish it could have been done.

Actually, plenty of good architecture came out of that era.



Lincoln Center and the Seagrams building in New York, the Stahl House by Pierre Koenig in Los Angelas, Marina City and Lake Point Tower in Chicago, The Sidney Opera House, etc. etc.



Locally we got The Priory Chapel by Gyo Obata, The main Lambert Terminal by Minoru Yamasaki, The Climatron by Buckminster Fuller, and Busch Stadium by Edward Durell Stone.

No, I don't think that Mansion House is significant in the larger context of architectural history, but I DO think it is significant in the context of St. Louis history. This was an ambitious, large scale project that (along with the other riverfront buildings) completely changed the front door of St. Louis. It introduced modern architecture to Downtown, not to mention the idea of city living.



Aside from that, my (short) list of early 60's era buildings was meant to defend the architecture of that era from your rather broad-brushed dismissal.



Viva Mansion House!

People:



To get rid of buildings, to actually demolish them, I think we need a DAMN GOOD reason. Not trifling arguments as to their lack of "historical importance." We can always make things better than they are without tearing them down and starting over.



I am sick of this disposable culture.



Buildings that are 100 years old are valued for their memory of a time past, lonely surviors, as not many buildings in America last. Buildings 50 years old are thought of as "old" and "outdated," so we demolish them... then wonder why the hell we did that 50 years later. In this akward in between time before things are relics, but after they are new... we tend to think "oh, they will continue to build buildings like these." Trust me, they wont. In 100 years these buildings will be treasures of a bygone era.

I really don't think the buildings need to go.



I really like the design and the look (believe it or not) - yes - they are old - but they still have a style all their own and the three matching towers together - are unified and a part of the STL skyline and arch/riverfront.



Some pics:







[/list]

Hey, I just said they were ugly and didn't do it for me, not that the wrecking ball should be called tommorrow...I don't know who put that out there.

I was the one who brought up the word demolition. But it wasn't a 'let's knock em down' comment. I was talking about in my perfect world, I would supplant them with a different kind of residential tower. In my perfect world where they'd be supplanted, not just removed. At the very least, I've always been okay that there's SOMETHING there.



I personally think those buildings are ugly. I never advocated knocking them down for the sake of knocking them down.

I like the Mansion House towers. They were built simultaneously with the Arch and Busch Stadium, and represent the misguided era of urban renewal. With the renewed interest in downtown living, balconies and killer views, the Mansion House towers are poised to become a highly sought-after address.

I agree with whoever it was above that said one of their main probs with the Mansion house is that it's sort of a black hole. There's no color...If there was a way to modify the buildings (thru rehab or whatever) that would brighten the location up I would have a different outlook.