I get this, but actually liked the elevated portion. Function over form, I suppose.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2024I think the trees will stay
(He’s asking about Kiener plaza, the green space on eastern end is awkward to use right now so it will be brought down to grade with rest of plaza amongst other Kiener improvements coming up)
- 1,607
- 1,792
-No one mentioned the Serra Sculpture Twain? Build Underground garage to support adjacent development and either reincorporate Twain into a revised space reminiscent of City Garden or remove it and rethink the space entirely.
-Move Eternal Flame Monument to Soldier Memorial Grand and Replace Burner with LED light feature, and ACTUALLY light it up, at least at night.
-Convert Eternal Flame and Kaufman Park blocks into private developments. I would not privately develop the linear mall between 15th and 18th.
-Road diet for Market makes sense.
-Move the Schiller sculpture to the Grounds of the Central Library. Install a statue honoring the STLPD. I realize this might be controversial but to my mind the inscription should make clear it is to honor those who protect the citizen of St. Louis not those individuals who abuse the position. Those officers who are there and do their job with honor deserve respect and putting such a scupture on the mall adjacent on dedicated to the soldiers who have and are defending the homeland and the firemen who risk lives to protect ours and our property feels appropriate.
-Commision some more statues of great artists especially with St. Louis ties. (Mark Twain, Scott Joplin, TS Elliot etc.) Assembly the staues around the grounds of the central Library.
-Add another Playground to the Western end of the Mall. The aesthic of the one in Keiner is great, so maybe something like that.
-Terraced seating just east of Aloe Plaza and a small raised stage. But only if there is a commitment to program with movie nights and/or concerts.
-Move Eternal Flame Monument to Soldier Memorial Grand and Replace Burner with LED light feature, and ACTUALLY light it up, at least at night.
-Convert Eternal Flame and Kaufman Park blocks into private developments. I would not privately develop the linear mall between 15th and 18th.
-Road diet for Market makes sense.
-Move the Schiller sculpture to the Grounds of the Central Library. Install a statue honoring the STLPD. I realize this might be controversial but to my mind the inscription should make clear it is to honor those who protect the citizen of St. Louis not those individuals who abuse the position. Those officers who are there and do their job with honor deserve respect and putting such a scupture on the mall adjacent on dedicated to the soldiers who have and are defending the homeland and the firemen who risk lives to protect ours and our property feels appropriate.
-Commision some more statues of great artists especially with St. Louis ties. (Mark Twain, Scott Joplin, TS Elliot etc.) Assembly the staues around the grounds of the central Library.
-Add another Playground to the Western end of the Mall. The aesthic of the one in Keiner is great, so maybe something like that.
-Terraced seating just east of Aloe Plaza and a small raised stage. But only if there is a commitment to program with movie nights and/or concerts.
No one mentioned the Serra sculpture for three reasons: Emily Rauh Pulitzer.
Discussion closed, never bring it up again, much less even think about it…
Discussion closed, never bring it up again, much less even think about it…
- 79
Also taking part in this. Which interview block are you in?dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jan 06, 2024I am going to be part of a panel interviewed next week about the Gateway Mall and things to do there, ULI is doing it for Greater STL inc and SLDC- so if you have suggestions on how to make the gateway mall better post'em
also my alder has appointed me to the Citizens Advisory committee for capital improvement projects- so if there are any projects for the downtown part of the 14th ward let me know.
- 9,529
3pm, other option was 9am but my wife is on that one so we decided to split up (the panel time not as husband and wife)
- 79
Ha. I'm in there at 1pm, but I think my partner is in at 3pm (I'll let her know you're still spoken for)dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jan 09, 20243pm, other option was 9am but my wife is on that one so we decided to split up (the panel time not as husband and wife)
- 9,529
What’s funny is that Emily Pulitzer is mentioned above and she just happens to be in my group at 3.
Probably wishful thinking but priority one should be develop the park north of Soldier's Memorial. Then both of the parks to the east of Soldier's Memorial. I'm all for greenspace but having multiple open blocks in the middle of downtown just makes everything so disconnected.
I'm not sure how feasible it is with the underground garage, but Peabody Plaza also has too much deadspace. Would love to see a 2-4 story building (with retail) to the south of the Peabody building. Would activate that deadspace where literally nothing happens (it's not even setup as a park) and again, make downtown feel less disconnected. A shorter building would keep the people worried about sightlines from the arch happy too.
And finally, while it's not part of Gateway Mall, would love to see the deadspace developed to the west of the Bank of America Building. Again, something between 2-6 stories with retail seems like it would go a long way to keep everything connected.
I'm not sure how feasible it is with the underground garage, but Peabody Plaza also has too much deadspace. Would love to see a 2-4 story building (with retail) to the south of the Peabody building. Would activate that deadspace where literally nothing happens (it's not even setup as a park) and again, make downtown feel less disconnected. A shorter building would keep the people worried about sightlines from the arch happy too.
And finally, while it's not part of Gateway Mall, would love to see the deadspace developed to the west of the Bank of America Building. Again, something between 2-6 stories with retail seems like it would go a long way to keep everything connected.
- 1,607
I like the eternal flame monument and think we need to turn up the gas. It is always on, but if you can't see it ever are you achieving intent? Never noticeable so looks abandoned. Would not be opposed to moving it as suggested by Enerd but wouldn't want to go LED, though could be convinced if we go Luxor wattage. I think the FAA may not think thats great, though.
With City Museum in the area of 15th street, a complimentary children focused sculptural area / playground/ naturescape would be great somewhere between Soldiers Memorial and the Aloe? Fountain. Could be used by people before City and Blues games as well.
I thought the old masterplan had a permanent bandstand/stage somewhere. Seems like the western end, with CitySC and Blues able to use that space - and maybe meeting/convention type events at Union Station - That would be the ideal place for that. Could be synergistic with Stifel Theatre.
With City Museum in the area of 15th street, a complimentary children focused sculptural area / playground/ naturescape would be great somewhere between Soldiers Memorial and the Aloe? Fountain. Could be used by people before City and Blues games as well.
I thought the old masterplan had a permanent bandstand/stage somewhere. Seems like the western end, with CitySC and Blues able to use that space - and maybe meeting/convention type events at Union Station - That would be the ideal place for that. Could be synergistic with Stifel Theatre.
Is there any way to replace the USPS building with residential or mixed development? There is no reason for the post office to use a block in that location. Find some space to build a more modern facility elsewhere in the city. I might even favor turning that entire block into a garage to replace some/all of the parking lots around Union Station, opening them for development.
- 9,529
Post office isn’t going anywhere. It’s the regions main sorting facility.
Agreed on DB's point that USPS isn't leaving but I also want to say that this development strategy is completely unrealistic. Downtown is not developing from a point of strength, we need to hold on to every building standing. I can't think of any example of tearing down a building for parking facilitating the development of other parking lots. More parking is just that.ccbstl wrote: ↑Jan 09, 2024Is there any way to replace the USPS building with residential or mixed development? There is no reason for the post office to use a block in that location. Find some space to build a more modern facility elsewhere in the city. I might even favor turning that entire block into a garage to replace some/all of the parking lots around Union Station, opening them for development.
- 79
Heads up if you're wondering. The scope of the conversation is between the courthouses --so Arch to TuckerdbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jan 09, 2024What’s funny is that Emily Pulitzer is mentioned above and she just happens to be in my group at 3.
^ So the part that needs the least improvement? Either way, glad this is being discussed!
The biggest improvement for that stretch would be replacing or replacing the Keiner garages and getting rid of the Serra sculpture.
So no replacement in the foreseeable future, it just seems so wasteful in that prime location. We aren't using mail trains anymore and there parcels that could be put together for a replacement.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jan 09, 2024Post office isn’t going anywhere. It’s the regions main sorting facility.
There are multiple lots ready for immediate development surrounding that facility that don't have any imminent proposals (that we know of), those should be concentrated on and filled before we start thinking of moving the post office.ccbstl wrote: ↑Jan 09, 2024So no replacement in the foreseeable future, it just seems so wasteful in that prime location. We aren't using mail trains anymore and there parcels that could be put together for a replacement.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jan 09, 2024Post office isn’t going anywhere. It’s the regions main sorting facility.
Also, focusing on specific lots ignores the problem that buildings on the south side of Market are never going to tie into the mall very well while the street is an oversized stroad.
- 9,529
I don’t think Postal office has any 20-30 year plans to vacate the existing propertyccbstl wrote: ↑Jan 09, 2024So no replacement in the foreseeable future, it just seems so wasteful in that prime location. We aren't using mail trains anymore and there parcels that could be put together for a replacement.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jan 09, 2024Post office isn’t going anywhere. It’s the regions main sorting facility.
Actually, the USPS does have plans to build up to 60 new "regional processing centers" over the next ten years or so.
I have no idea if St. Louis will get one, or if it would impact the Downtown location if it did. Until and unless that happens, I see nothing wrong with the DT facility continuing operation. It's not like there's a line of developers wanting to take over the site.
https://www.govexec.com/management/2022 ... ar/368961/
I have no idea if St. Louis will get one, or if it would impact the Downtown location if it did. Until and unless that happens, I see nothing wrong with the DT facility continuing operation. It's not like there's a line of developers wanting to take over the site.
https://www.govexec.com/management/2022 ... ar/368961/
Let's hope it's not replaced by a greenfield facility near Edwardsville.
- 1,792
is the post office or any other private property within the scope of the discussion. As presented i thought it was about capital improvements to the parks of the gateway mall. It seems absurd they want to focus on the part that needs the least work. Serra sculpture is the only part of all that that need addressed in my opinion. Western portion needs a lot of love.
I like the monument i just want it physically moved to the same block as the soldiers memorial and placed prominently. I recommended converting to LED because of the cost associated with continuously feeding it enough gas to make the flame visible and modern sensibilities regarding emitting CO2 frivolously. Obviously you would hire a professional artist with skills in "light scultping" but i was thinking less like a spotlight and more like a multicolored lightshow so FAA would not be an issue. infinitely tall column of light would be cool too but i wonder how easily that would work in a downtown with street lights etc. Of course the redesign/move only makes sense if they can also get those blocks (Eternal Flame and Poelker) developed.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Jan 09, 2024I like the eternal flame monument and think we need to turn up the gas. It is always on, but if you can't see it ever are you achieving intent? Never noticeable so looks abandoned. Would not be opposed to moving it as suggested by Enerd but wouldn't want to go LED, though could be convinced if we go Luxor wattage. I think the FAA may not think thats great, though.
With City Museum in the area of 15th street, a complimentary children focused sculptural area / playground/ naturescape would be great somewhere between Soldiers Memorial and the Aloe? Fountain. Could be used by people before City and Blues games as well.
I thought the old masterplan had a permanent bandstand/stage somewhere. Seems like the western end, with CitySC and Blues able to use that space - and maybe meeting/convention type events at Union Station - That would be the ideal place for that. Could be synergistic with Stifel Theatre.
- Fix crosswalks/crossing signals. Many crosswalks along the mall have no walk signals for pedestrians.
- Do something with the Serra property, obviously. At least freshen up the landscaping.
- Remove the barriers south of Kiener, or just get the Brickline Greenway going.
- Unrestrict scooter use in the bike lane north of Kiener. Geofencing thinks you're "in" Kiener, so the scooters often turn off in the bike path (so annoying).
- Do something with the Serra property, obviously. At least freshen up the landscaping.
- Remove the barriers south of Kiener, or just get the Brickline Greenway going.
- Unrestrict scooter use in the bike lane north of Kiener. Geofencing thinks you're "in" Kiener, so the scooters often turn off in the bike path (so annoying).