Not to divert but you mentioned Wave Taco - does that place only open for league play times or something? Me and a friend were hanging around Wash Ave during the summer on a friday evening around 7 and thought it might be a fun place to grab a drink since we hadn’t been before. It was not even open and nobody was around. Is it not just open for food, drinks, volleyball generally?STLCityMike wrote: ↑Dec 11, 2024I would love to see sand volleyball courts that could be used for leagues. We play downtown already at Wav Taco, if they allow leagues, I think it could work. Concessions would ne nice (like at the softball fields in Forest Park.
I also think nice playgrounds would help.
They used to air a Christmas Story? Are they still doing that?
- 913
- 9,528
Finally found something in my Google Drive, will upload tomorrow after I compress it, it’s too big for this but here are some images from it
+3
- 913
Thank you for digging this up! I was looking at the parks and putting notes down what might fit there. Someone has already put the effort in. Love the plans and how amenity rich it would make the gateway mall. Lists most of the things we mentioned here. I don’t know many urban centers that could compete with this. Let’s push the resurgence of thisdbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Dec 11, 2024Finally found something in my Google Drive, will upload tomorrow after I compress it, it’s too big for this but here are some images from it
- 398
I am not sure. We played on Tuesdays only. We would play late into the evening though - like after 10 sometimes.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Dec 11, 2024Not to divert but you mentioned Wave Taco - does that place only open for league play times or something? Me and a friend were hanging around Wash Ave during the summer on a friday evening around 7 and thought it might be a fun place to grab a drink since we hadn’t been before. It was not even open and nobody was around. Is it not just open for food, drinks, volleyball generally?STLCityMike wrote: ↑Dec 11, 2024I would love to see sand volleyball courts that could be used for leagues. We play downtown already at Wav Taco, if they allow leagues, I think it could work. Concessions would ne nice (like at the softball fields in Forest Park.
I also think nice playgrounds would help.
They used to air a Christmas Story? Are they still doing that?
I believe it's only leagues and tournaments.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Dec 11, 2024Not to divert but you mentioned Wave Taco - does that place only open for league play times or something? Me and a friend were hanging around Wash Ave during the summer on a friday evening around 7 and thought it might be a fun place to grab a drink since we hadn’t been before. It was not even open and nobody was around. Is it not just open for food, drinks, volleyball generally?STLCityMike wrote: ↑Dec 11, 2024I would love to see sand volleyball courts that could be used for leagues. We play downtown already at Wav Taco, if they allow leagues, I think it could work. Concessions would ne nice (like at the softball fields in Forest Park.
I also think nice playgrounds would help.
They used to air a Christmas Story? Are they still doing that?
Some thoughts on a refresh of the city owned Gateway Mall parks:
With the natural progression of CityPark expanding into the Serra sculpture block and the spaces west of Soldiers Memorial visioned with more active and neighborhood amenities, that leaves Kaufmann and Poelker parks adjacent to City Hall begging for a revamp. With many large events and festivals taking place in the open areas these greenspaces provide, I imagined a fairly modest redesign that leaves the open event spaces, original border sidewalks, and Firefighters Memorial alone, while introducing some built in activities such as table tennis, bocce ball, chess and game tables, and cornhole. Reducing the angled parking and removing a driving lane on Chestnut between the parks could allow for a food truck parking area with a strip of outdoor seating to activate the space with downtown workers. Rebuilding paths to be more direct and reestablishing new shade trees to replace the ones lost over the decades would freshen up the parks while still allowing for future additions and renovations and to not preclude the Brickline Greenway improvements in the coming years.
Would this be something the city could implement with in-house design and without complex procedures? Since it keeps with the already complete master planning that has been done for the mall and isn't a massive redesign the planning process could probably be expedited. Would appreciate any comments or additional ideas!
With the natural progression of CityPark expanding into the Serra sculpture block and the spaces west of Soldiers Memorial visioned with more active and neighborhood amenities, that leaves Kaufmann and Poelker parks adjacent to City Hall begging for a revamp. With many large events and festivals taking place in the open areas these greenspaces provide, I imagined a fairly modest redesign that leaves the open event spaces, original border sidewalks, and Firefighters Memorial alone, while introducing some built in activities such as table tennis, bocce ball, chess and game tables, and cornhole. Reducing the angled parking and removing a driving lane on Chestnut between the parks could allow for a food truck parking area with a strip of outdoor seating to activate the space with downtown workers. Rebuilding paths to be more direct and reestablishing new shade trees to replace the ones lost over the decades would freshen up the parks while still allowing for future additions and renovations and to not preclude the Brickline Greenway improvements in the coming years.
Would this be something the city could implement with in-house design and without complex procedures? Since it keeps with the already complete master planning that has been done for the mall and isn't a massive redesign the planning process could probably be expedited. Would appreciate any comments or additional ideas!
- 951
I will believe it when I see it
And came of the re-do of Tucker that was to include streetscape upgrades??
And came of the re-do of Tucker that was to include streetscape upgrades??
- 9,528
I posted an update on that in the downtown thread yesterday. Mid May startchris fuller wrote: ↑Apr 15, 2025I will believe it when I see it
And came of the re-do of Tucker that was to include streetscape upgrades??
- 3,428
When I first went to Washington DC in the 70s, is was shocked to see the capital mall being used for softball diamonds etc. like a city park. But I quickly fell in love with that use of the mall — filled with folks running bases, families, cheering groups, etc. It was alive. Not sterile grass mall. Not sure they still allow that. But why don’t we put softball diamonds on parts of our gateway mall?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was there in Feb 2023 and June 2024, don't think I saw any softball diamonds with dirt, but there were tons of people using it like a city park. People playing kick ball, soccer, picnics, etc.gary kreie wrote: ↑Apr 16, 2025When I first went to Washington DC in the 70s, is was shocked to see the capital mall being used for softball diamonds etc. like a city park. But I quickly fell in love with that use of the mall — filled with folks running bases, families, cheering groups, etc. It was alive. Not sterile grass mall. Not sure they still allow that. But why don’t we put softball diamonds on parts of our gateway mall?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- 2,620
One of those mall squares should have a big grassy mound built on it. Throw in a little woodhenge reproduction and interpretive signs talking about the history of Cahokia and the mound builders. Would be pretty cheap to pull off.
In the original 2009 plan they visioned a viewing mound with lighted pylons inspired by Cahokia acting as a western terminus to the mall. That block is now the stair plaza of Energizer Park. Not sure if this idea would work in any other section of the mall though, it would probably feel like a barrier... maybe in the Eternal Flame block?
Also fwiw I think Kiener Plaza is going to be removing their central grassy mound because it pretty much makes the area unusable.
Also fwiw I think Kiener Plaza is going to be removing their central grassy mound because it pretty much makes the area unusable.
- 2,620
Yeah, it would make the most sense at Eternal Flame, Kaufman, or that block immediately north of the soldiers memorial.
- 79
I could see a smallish mound working well at Eternal Flame. Though my dream spot for a big mound is at the northern end of the near north riverfront--to seperate the industrial uses to the north from the park/residential/entertainment opportunities from cotton-belt south. This is also near the "big mound" historic site so there was a large mound here up until about 150 years ago.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Apr 17, 2025Yeah, it would make the most sense at Eternal Flame, Kaufman, or that block immediately north of the soldiers memorial.
It was only a matter of time before someone brought this up:
Loss of Peabody Downtown could be a greenspace opportunity
So I’m curious what you all think. Should the Peabody building be torn down to create a more contiguous mall?
Personally, I see a few problems with this idea, one being that this building is almost fully leased and Peabody will only be vacating a couple of floors. From my understanding, the tenants in the building are in Peabody specifically because of the amenities and good management it offers. If it’s torn down, these firms have no other incentive to stay downtown and will likely move out to the burbs.
Another concern is that the Gateway Mall is severely underutilized as it is. I highly doubt that tearing down a structure with a successful 1st-floor restaurant (UKraft) to create more empty green space will invigorate the Mall. Curious to know your thoughts, though.
Loss of Peabody Downtown could be a greenspace opportunity
So I’m curious what you all think. Should the Peabody building be torn down to create a more contiguous mall?
Personally, I see a few problems with this idea, one being that this building is almost fully leased and Peabody will only be vacating a couple of floors. From my understanding, the tenants in the building are in Peabody specifically because of the amenities and good management it offers. If it’s torn down, these firms have no other incentive to stay downtown and will likely move out to the burbs.
Another concern is that the Gateway Mall is severely underutilized as it is. I highly doubt that tearing down a structure with a successful 1st-floor restaurant (UKraft) to create more empty green space will invigorate the Mall. Curious to know your thoughts, though.
- 502
I’d retain the building until the Kiener Plaza garages are replaced with a better usage. When/if that happens, then there should be enough positive activity around there to get rid of Peabody Plaza. In an ideal world, you’d have dense residential on those parcels with Wainwright being residential as well and the tenants in Peabody moving into available space in a redeveloped AT&T Building.
In this scenario, you basically get 4 dormant blocks activated and the potential demolition of Peabody Plaza wouldn’t hurt as bad.
In this scenario, you basically get 4 dormant blocks activated and the potential demolition of Peabody Plaza wouldn’t hurt as bad.
- 9,528
The building isn’t going anywhere nor are Kiener garages
Makes sense both are here to stay. Having said that, it would be great for the garages to get a big refresh. At least they they also have street-level retail, though I believe a couple of them at least are currently vacant.
It also doesn't make sense to tear down Peabody Plaza, especially without commitment from current businesses to secure space downtown afterwards. And, maybe it's just me, but the whole thing with the view/mall being interrupted by Peabody Plaza just doesn't make sense. The Civil Courts building already does that, being almost 400 feet tall. But maybe it gets a pass because of the type of building it is/what it represents? I'm not sure.
Having said all that, I think the best thing for the Gateway Mall would be investment in the not-so-tended-to parts (Serra Sculpture Park, Poelker Park, the nameless park (?) with the Schiller Sculpture, the nameless park (?) directly west of it, Memorial Plaza, and Aloe Plaza), and the connectivity between them all. And go through the process to open up Eternal Flame Park, Kaufman Park, and possibly the nameless park (?) between Soldier's Memorial and the Central Library up for development (assuming that doesn't mean sometime in the distant future/parking lot in the meantime).
It also doesn't make sense to tear down Peabody Plaza, especially without commitment from current businesses to secure space downtown afterwards. And, maybe it's just me, but the whole thing with the view/mall being interrupted by Peabody Plaza just doesn't make sense. The Civil Courts building already does that, being almost 400 feet tall. But maybe it gets a pass because of the type of building it is/what it represents? I'm not sure.
Having said all that, I think the best thing for the Gateway Mall would be investment in the not-so-tended-to parts (Serra Sculpture Park, Poelker Park, the nameless park (?) with the Schiller Sculpture, the nameless park (?) directly west of it, Memorial Plaza, and Aloe Plaza), and the connectivity between them all. And go through the process to open up Eternal Flame Park, Kaufman Park, and possibly the nameless park (?) between Soldier's Memorial and the Central Library up for development (assuming that doesn't mean sometime in the distant future/parking lot in the meantime).
- 2,620
Tearing down the Peabody is a discussion to be had if/when occupancy drops to a drastically low level. Right now it's one of our better performing office buildings. Downtown can't afford to mess with that right now.
The whole discussion is silly. If we were NYC or Chicago, that would be one thing, but we aren't. We have no business tearing down more buildings, especially not buildings that have helped keep multiple companies downtown and have a very solid occupancy rate.Ragtimer wrote: ↑Nov 17, 2025It was only a matter of time before someone brought this up:
Loss of Peabody Downtown could be a greenspace opportunity
So I’m curious what you all think. Should the Peabody building be torn down to create a more contiguous mall?
Personally, I see a few problems with this idea, one being that this building is almost fully leased and Peabody will only be vacating a couple of floors. From my understanding, the tenants in the building are in Peabody specifically because of the amenities and good management it offers. If it’s torn down, these firms have no other incentive to stay downtown and will likely move out to the burbs.
Another concern is that the Gateway Mall is severely underutilized as it is. I highly doubt that tearing down a structure with a successful 1st-floor restaurant (UKraft) to create more empty green space will invigorate the Mall. Curious to know your thoughts, though.
And this is a minority view, but I actually like the building a decent amount. I think it look decent and when you're walking around, it fits in naturally and makes the intersections by it "feel" more urban.
- 1,793
This has to be the stupidest opinion piece I have ever seen.
I didn't actually read the article until you said it was the stupidest you've ever seen, so I went and actually read it. It's actually worse than "stupidest I've ever seen." Show-Me Institute puts out great opinions compared to whatever the hell you wanna call this. It's disqualifying for the P-D as a media outlet to have even published this.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Nov 17, 2025This has to be the stupidest opinion piece I have ever seen.
- 913
Eventually I would like to see an overhaul of the entire gateway mall which would include redevelopment of the Peabody parcel, but right now the focus needs to be on millenium, railway, at&t and chemical. Then as others say, Keiner garages should be a major fixation of the city if things are in motion with those others
Many mistakes were made in the gateway mall, including the peabody, and eventually in a more healthy downtown, it should be addressed but we have too many abandoned buildings, empty parcels, and horrible parking garages downtown to get there yet
Many mistakes were made in the gateway mall, including the peabody, and eventually in a more healthy downtown, it should be addressed but we have too many abandoned buildings, empty parcels, and horrible parking garages downtown to get there yet
Thanks for all of your input! Generally, I agree with all of you that now is not the time to touch Peabody and that there are a number of more important things that can be done to help the Mall and Downtown as a whole. I especially don't want to see Peabody torn down right now since it's been performing so well. Even with two vacant floors, I'd bet it's still one of Downtown's best-performing office buildings. Not that demolition even is being threatened, anyway. It's just an opinion article in the P-D.
- 1,793
Any conversation about the mall complex should be about making it smaller, not bigger