Fox Park Quick Trip Re-Build

Mark Groth · PostJan 06, 2014#12014-01-06T15:53+00:00

Apparently the QT at Gravois and Nebraska in Fox Park will be upgraded soon:

TGE facebook post: "QT on Gravois and Nebraska will close for 7 months starting in June 2014. Complete tear down and rebuild. The front will then face Nebraska instead of Gravois."

From the 6th ward alderwoman:

QT will be building a new Gen 3 store at Nebraska and Gravois (the closest one to the City is at St. Charles Rock Road and 170) late spring or early summer. They are working closely with Cultural Resources and will be coming to TGE and Fox Park meetings in February to get community feedback on the site plan. I will also let everyone know when the hearing is at the Preservation Board. In the meantime, please let me know if you have questions or concerns.

I have been scouring the interwebs for good examples of gas stations/convenience stores that are build to be urban. Can you all provide me any? Also, if there is folks who are educated on the matter, please consider attending our neighborhood meeting in FEB. I will post back here when the actual dates are.

I feel this opportunity is one that should not be missed and the Cultural Resources Office should demand high standards since this is a hist. district. I also realize a QT is tough fit for urban standards. I really don't want to shrug this one off, and educating people on good urban design is tough in these parts.

Any suggestions or better yet...real, in person help and support would be much appreciated. Feel free to PM me here or send me a note if you have the skillz: groth_stl@hotmail.com

Thanks urban stl'ers!

dweebe · PostJan 06, 2014#22014-01-06T16:08+00:00

I don't think there's such a thing as an "urban" gas station. The closest I've seen is something like this somewhere in Queens (New York City).

Mark Groth · PostJan 06, 2014#32014-01-06T17:08+00:00

Urban design guidelines for gas stations in Ottawa:

http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cityco ... _small.pdf

And a report from Urban Indy:

http://www.urbanindy.com/2011/09/06/urb ... districts/

jstriebel · PostJan 06, 2014#42014-01-06T18:12+00:00

I mentioned this in the Maplewood QT thread, and someone did give me a reasonable answer, but I still am curious if a convenience mart situated on the corner with the pumps behind it would work.

The answer I was given is that the pumps need to be visible to potential customers from the street. Fair enough. What about a compromise where the pumps wrap around in an L shape behind the corner mart? So some would be visible from each street. Essentially it'd be the same as a parking lot to each side of the building allowing the mart to be up to the corner.

That's less about any historic factors as it is about urban design. My thought is convenience marts are actually pretty integral and useful parts of the city. Especially ones that are well-kept and trusted as QT's, in my opinion, are. They become inviting not just to the drivers stoping for gas, but also to pedestrians in the area.

I tend to doubt that they'd go this route but I'd certainly love to see it.

rbeedee · PostJan 06, 2014#52014-01-06T19:54+00:00

Here's one from Milwaukee: http://milwaukeestreets.blogspot.com/20 ... ation.html

It may not be truly "urban," but it's a step up from your average gas station.

Presbyterian · PostJan 06, 2014#62014-01-06T20:50+00:00

There really aren't many good examples out there. In terms of maintaining urban form, the solution I can see is to build the canopy all the way out to the sidewalk (or other building line). The pumps, building, parking--anything that might be asphalt or concrete--would be under the canopy, which could still function to define the street.

Think miniature Union Station shed, up against the sidewalk.

wabash · PostJan 06, 2014#72014-01-06T21:41+00:00

I always liked this gas station on Newstead. It's not entirely urban, but still adds something to the streetscape:

An uber-urban Parisian gas station:

imran · PostJan 06, 2014#82014-01-06T22:09+00:00

"QT will be building a new Gen 3 store at Nebraska and Gravois (the closest one to the City is at St. Charles Rock Road and 170) "

I believe there is one close to completion at Vandeventer/Choteau

Having said that, I cannot get excited about a gas station and in a historic neighborhood they really should be tucked away off the main streets . The BP on Newstead/Laclede in the CWE is hidden at a quiet intersection and does brisk business without being a complete obnoxion.

Mark Groth · PostJan 06, 2014#92014-01-06T22:50+00:00

Thanks for the examples. In the case of this part of town, having a gas station/40 oz dispensary as this place is, you don't want it in the middle of the neighborhood. Trust me on that one. The CWE we are not. I'm not excited by this by any stretch of the imagination, but gas stations are a necessity so I am trying to make sure we make the best of it. Again, thanks.

shadrach · PostJan 06, 2014#102014-01-06T23:06+00:00

Boo!

I always liked this one as its building pays a subtle homage to the homes in Soulard.
I've never seen that in any other QT. Anywhere.

jstriebel · PostJan 07, 2014#112014-01-07T00:18+00:00

Are you referencing the shape of the side of the building? I pulled it up on street view and was able to see what you were talking about, I think.

But I hadn't noticed before. More of a cool tidbit than an actual attractive element, but that is interesting.

m2tbone · PostJan 07, 2014#122014-01-07T02:04+00:00

Since the new Quik Trip would now face Nebraska Ave., the back of it would face Gravois, therefore hiding the view of the pumps from Gravois mostly. These new QTs have 4 entrances (2 doors on the front and a door on each end).

eee123 · PostJan 07, 2014#132014-01-07T07:24+00:00

I wish you luck in getting QuikTrip to build something more urban.

I do know that in Tulsa, QT's home, they've not built anything remotely urban and have gotten zoning changed in the one area with form-based codes in order to get their suburban style Gen 3 store. They even had a side street closed to expand. They've expanded two in more urban areas of that city lately and didn't make anything remotely urban.

Pearl District QuikTrip
http://www.batesline.com/archives/2012/ ... snatc.html

Brookside QuikTrip
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?;topic=15251.0

Mark Groth · PostJan 07, 2014#142014-01-07T14:11+00:00

I've taken looks at all their Gen 3 stores across the Midwest...it ain't pretty. But again, I think we need to put our best foot forward and ask for reasonable conditions. FWIW, I am not anti-gas station in any way. They are a necessity in current times, so I just want the best and don't want to just get what they give us.

beer city · PostJan 07, 2014#152014-01-07T16:32+00:00

Mark Groth wrote:I've taken looks at all their Gen 3 stores across the Midwest...it ain't pretty. But again, I think we need to put our best foot forward and ask for reasonable conditions. FWIW, I am not anti-gas station in any way. They are a necessity in current times, so I just want the best and don't want to just get what they give us.

Quick Trip is a blight to the city in the 90's and 2000's what 7-11 was in the 70's and 80's - honestly their stores and pumps take up like twice the space they need - The word "urban friendly" is just not part of their vocabulary - You can pitch better design but my guess is they just don't get it.

rbb · PostJan 07, 2014#162014-01-07T16:34+00:00

m2tbone wrote:Since the new Quik Trip would now face Nebraska Ave., the back of it would face Gravois, therefore hiding the view of the pumps from Gravois mostly. These new QTs have 4 entrances (2 doors on the front and a door on each end).

I'm wondering if that is maybe their 'urban' concession to the Gravois Streetscape. I do know that some QuickTrips have entrances on both sides of the building. While it's not urban in any sense of the word, the (non-Gen 3) store on Bowles Avenue near I-44 in Fenton, MO is one example. Maybe they're planning to put the building closer to the street on Gravois and have a street-facing entry there in addition to the auto-centric entrance on Nebraska?

-RBB

STLEnginerd · PostJan 07, 2014#172014-01-07T22:04+00:00

Not that QT would be likely to go for it but what if the pumps were behind the building but there was some kind of electronic signage out front to indicate whether there were pumps available and how many. Obviously it would take some time for drivers to recognize the indicator. Also they would probably have to be forced into it.

I've always heard gas stations don't really make much on the gas anyway, just there to bring in customer to spend on higher margin concessions. A quick trip without pumps would make a killing in a densely pedestrian neighborhood. Unfortunately St. Louis doesn't really rise to that level yet except maybe in some select parts of downtown and the CWE.

As far as Gas stations go QT are the best I have seen in terms of shopping experience. Unfortunately they gobble up the choicest corner lots like they were crack.

stlhistory · PostJan 07, 2014#182014-01-07T23:38+00:00

For what it's worth, here's Nebraska and Gravois in 1875:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63367474@N03/11827622716/

imran · PostJan 08, 2014#192014-01-08T00:35+00:00

http://milwaukeestreets.blogspot.com/20 ... ation.html'

How about a version of this ?

gone corporate · PostJan 08, 2014#202014-01-08T20:24+00:00

FYI I believe there's a Gen 3 QuikTrip at New Halls Ferry Road just north of 270 in North County.

As STLEnginerd stated, these Gen 3 stores look to maximize revenues from their retail sales of non-gasoline products, from rotating hot dogs & candy bars to cigarettes & Cokes. As the Gravois QT is my preferred place to fill-up, I can attest to the large populations inside the store on an ongoing basis, just as the crowds have been around recently trying to find an open gas terminal.

I would think that they could consider design considerations, so long as they are not cost-prohibitive and remain conductive to both gas fill-ups and retail snack shoppers. Mark, Godspeed and good luck.

innov8ion · PostJan 08, 2014#212014-01-08T21:31+00:00

gone corporate wrote:FYI I believe there's a Gen 3 QuikTrip at New Halls Ferry Road just north of 270 in North County.

As STLEnginerd stated, these Gen 3 stores look to maximize revenues from their retail sales of non-gasoline products, from rotating hot dogs & candy bars to cigarettes & Cokes. As the Gravois QT is my preferred place to fill-up, I can attest to the large populations inside the store on an ongoing basis, just as the crowds have been around recently trying to find an open gas terminal.

I would think that they could consider design considerations, so long as they are not cost-prohibitive and remain conductive to both gas fill-ups and retail snack shoppers. Mark, Godspeed and good luck.

There's also a Gen 3 store just north of I-270 where McDonnell transitions to Howdershell Road. These two are the only ones in our area so far. I already liked QuikTrip, but this model is even better w/ more convenience options.

Here's a nice description of the Gen 3 model as well as the Howdershell / I-270 location on Hazelwood Patch.

Example Gen3 Store

dweebe · PostJan 08, 2014#222014-01-08T21:45+00:00

innov8ion wrote:
gone corporate wrote:FYI I believe there's a Gen 3 QuikTrip at New Halls Ferry Road just north of 270 in North County.

As STLEnginerd stated, these Gen 3 stores look to maximize revenues from their retail sales of non-gasoline products, from rotating hot dogs & candy bars to cigarettes & Cokes. As the Gravois QT is my preferred place to fill-up, I can attest to the large populations inside the store on an ongoing basis, just as the crowds have been around recently trying to find an open gas terminal.

I would think that they could consider design considerations, so long as they are not cost-prohibitive and remain conductive to both gas fill-ups and retail snack shoppers. Mark, Godspeed and good luck.
There's also a Gen 3 store just north of I-270 where McDonnell transitions to Howdershell Road. These two are the only ones in our area so far. I already liked QuikTrip, but this model is even better w/ more convenience options.

Here's a nice description of the Gen 3 model as well as the Howdershell / I-270 location on Hazelwood Patch.

Example Gen3 Store

There's another one at the northwest corner of 170 and St. Charles Rock Road.

innov8ion · PostJan 08, 2014#232014-01-08T21:50+00:00

^ Ahh, maybe I borked the search at http://www.quiktrip.com/Locations. On a second try, it indicated far more Gen 3 stores, even though I know some of them aren't.

KerrytheKonstructor · PostJan 08, 2014#242014-01-08T23:46+00:00

These are the ones I know of and can recall:

Howdershell/McDonnell just w of 270
St. Charles Rock Rd. just w of 170
New Halls Ferry just n of 270
W. Florissant just s of 270 (new location)
Lilac just s of 270 (store open--new pumps still under const.)
Vandeventer at Choteau (under const.)
Big Bend at Manchester (under const.)

I was also in one the other day that had the pretzel/smoothie bar from the gen 3 design, but it was an older store, but for the life of me I can't remember where it was. I know of none (other than Maplewood under const.) in IL, W or S county, St. Charles or Jefferson county. Surely there are?

Username · PostJan 09, 2014#252014-01-09T18:36+00:00

The QT at First Capitol and I-70 in St. Charles just added the 'QT Kitchens' concept with the pizza/smoothies/lattes. It's still an older store, but it appears they will be adding them to others.