I don't believe that a single voter in the County would be asked their opinion on the City rejoining the County? Am I wrong?Boombox wrote:I honestly think that there are too many "I-hate-the-city-no-matter-what" crowd voters out there for this to ever become a reality. In the forseeable future, at least.
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Does the cost of the city's county-type duties come close to the amount of revenue from the earnings tax? It would be nice if we could tie the two together in one vote. That might be enough of a carrot for many county voters.
This article from the St. Louis Beacon states that Dooley would put the question to voters, as would the city, before going ahead with it. And it's safe to say that Corrigan would never let it happen.Alex Ihnen wrote:I don't believe that a single voter in the County would be asked their opinion on the City rejoining the County? Am I wrong?
Beacon Article wrote:But Dooley emphasized Tuesday that the city's re-entry would require affirmative votes in the city and the county -- and that he doesn't expect that to happen for a long time. Dooley said he was simply voicing his opinion on the topic.
Would that require a majority in both city and county or a majority overall?
What happens?
Code: Select all
City County Total
Yes 120K 250K 370K
No 30K 300K 330KThe key verbiage being, "Affirmative votes in the city and the county." Meaning, if either the city our county votes it down, it fails entirely. But as others have said, how would a merger be defined? I'm not sure that there will be much of a change, at least initially.quincunx wrote:Would that require a majority in both city and county or a majority overall?What happens?Code: Select all
City County Total Yes 120K 250K 370K No 30K 300K 330K
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I thought that there exists the option for the City to dissolve itself, at which point it would become unincorporated St. Louis County.
To answer the question above, perhaps it would play out like the Metro funding votes.
To answer the question above, perhaps it would play out like the Metro funding votes.
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quincunx wrote:Would that require a majority in both city and county or a majority overall?What happens?Code: Select all
City County Total Yes 120K 250K 370K No 30K 300K 330K
I've not looked up the legalities, but "affirmative votes in the city and the county" sure sounds like a "yes" on both sides of Skinker, which seems like the way it ought to be. Otherwise, if it for some reason wanted to, one large municipality could forcibly merge itself into a smaller neighbor, which doesn't seem right. Imagine U City pulling that on Ladue.
By the way, I'd be very surprised if city voters went 4-1 in favor of a merger. Could be wrong, but I think it'd be a pretty close vote, and not just for myopic local political reasons.
I think your back to asking what to vote on .....
City going back into the county as another muni - just as Clayton is a muni in St. Louis County
or an outright
City and county merging as one entity
The ironic part to me is that those county residents in favor of less government, more consolidation and cost savings would vote NO on the first choice. Unfortunately, no longer a MO resident and can't vote in either case.
City going back into the county as another muni - just as Clayton is a muni in St. Louis County
or an outright
City and county merging as one entity
The ironic part to me is that those county residents in favor of less government, more consolidation and cost savings would vote NO on the first choice. Unfortunately, no longer a MO resident and can't vote in either case.
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Alex Ihnen wrote:I thought that there exists the option for the City to dissolve itself, at which point it would become unincorporated St. Louis County.
To answer the question above, perhaps it would play out like the Metro funding votes.
Wow Alex. Would dissolving itself remove all of our voter approved initiatives in the city? We'd give up our Metro tax and take on the county's? Earnings tax disappears.
If it is the giant reset that it seems like, then it would upset a lot of entrenched power. It'd be easy to defeat at the polls. "Don't give up on the city! Vote no on..."
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I heard a piece on the news where a County politician said he would be strongly opposed to re-entry of the City back into the County if it just meant the County would pay all the City's bills.
The Countians could defeat a merger on fear alone. What are some of the fears, and what are the counters to those fears that will be convincing enough to sway a majority of Countians?
1. Property Values. Some Countians who favor merger will vote NO because they fear their neighbors will move to St. Charles which will further drive down property values. One Counter: In the long run, a rising sea lifts all ships, and all property values should rise if the metro area addresses things regionally. Need: Is there convincing data from other metros? What new result of the merger would be especially attractive to people in outer ring counties? i.e., expanded Metrolink; linked Parks and Trails; County school vouchers. (attractive things not available in the ring counties that would make families move in, besides commuting time.)
2. Higher Taxes. Like the politician above, many people believe their taxes will go up to bail out the city. One Counter: The County government will now get property tax dollars from the city residents, and will be able to reduce cost duplication through efficiency. Need: Can the new taxes and the efficiency savings be quantified and presented as a planned tax-cut to the voters, or used for a new regional improvement?
3. Loss of Control -- Loss of Lifestyle. Some Countians may fear that they will not have as much local control as they do now. This could lead to less road repair, less park maintenance, less fire and police, less infrastructure support as the City needs outweigh the County. One Counter: Fire and police should be unchanged for incorporated towns in the County. The new County will have more resources to go after crime in all high crime areas, hopefully reducing crime overall. County residents use City streets much more than City residents use County streets now. They should want them to be improved. Need: A plan on how combined revenue will be used for the new County. County residents need to see that the merger will improve the things they currently use frequently in the City. OR, create something new for the whole region with the dollar savings that could clearly improve Countians lifestyle, such as Chouteau Lake by the Ballpark, a new Regional Airport Plan, a new Zoo asset in the county (like an Aquarium), or a new City/County Park plan -- with no new taxes.
The Countians could defeat a merger on fear alone. What are some of the fears, and what are the counters to those fears that will be convincing enough to sway a majority of Countians?
1. Property Values. Some Countians who favor merger will vote NO because they fear their neighbors will move to St. Charles which will further drive down property values. One Counter: In the long run, a rising sea lifts all ships, and all property values should rise if the metro area addresses things regionally. Need: Is there convincing data from other metros? What new result of the merger would be especially attractive to people in outer ring counties? i.e., expanded Metrolink; linked Parks and Trails; County school vouchers. (attractive things not available in the ring counties that would make families move in, besides commuting time.)
2. Higher Taxes. Like the politician above, many people believe their taxes will go up to bail out the city. One Counter: The County government will now get property tax dollars from the city residents, and will be able to reduce cost duplication through efficiency. Need: Can the new taxes and the efficiency savings be quantified and presented as a planned tax-cut to the voters, or used for a new regional improvement?
3. Loss of Control -- Loss of Lifestyle. Some Countians may fear that they will not have as much local control as they do now. This could lead to less road repair, less park maintenance, less fire and police, less infrastructure support as the City needs outweigh the County. One Counter: Fire and police should be unchanged for incorporated towns in the County. The new County will have more resources to go after crime in all high crime areas, hopefully reducing crime overall. County residents use City streets much more than City residents use County streets now. They should want them to be improved. Need: A plan on how combined revenue will be used for the new County. County residents need to see that the merger will improve the things they currently use frequently in the City. OR, create something new for the whole region with the dollar savings that could clearly improve Countians lifestyle, such as Chouteau Lake by the Ballpark, a new Regional Airport Plan, a new Zoo asset in the county (like an Aquarium), or a new City/County Park plan -- with no new taxes.