^I would be fine with that, and I suspect that is what the Mayor is really after. We don't have to be formally joined, but we need much more regional cooperation. Baby steps is better than no steps. It's been said already, but mergers of the 91 small municipality's in St. Louis County needs to happen more than St. Louis Rejoining St. Louis County.
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That would actually be harder than St. Louis City joining St. Louis County, IMHO.MattnSTL wrote:^I would be fine with that, and I suspect that is what the Mayor is really after. We don't have to be formally joined, but we need much more regional cooperation. Baby steps is better than no steps. It's been said already, but mergers of the 91 small municipality's in St. Louis County needs to happen more than St. Louis Rejoining St. Louis County.
There are a lot of little kingdoms in the city and in the county...the only way to merge kingdoms is to buy them out, forcing the issue will only lead to expansion in Jefferson County, St. Charles County, and Illinois.
The amount of division in this city/county is amazing (and I am guilty of it as well), but money seems to make everything better.
Imagine a world without 91+ municipalities competing with each other for the latest WalMart. Imagine a united community following common sense planning and development ideas, working toward a common goal. Imagine a better life for some 3 million Greater St. Louis Area residents.
He he he. Just FYI, Shrewsbury is the latest to seek a Wal-Mart. Sources say they're "very interested" in Kenrick Plaza, given about $30M in incentives, of course.Framer wrote:Imagine a world without 91+ municipalities competing with each other for the latest WalMart. Imagine a united community following common sense planning and development ideas, working toward a common goal. Imagine a better life for some 3 million Greater St. Louis Area residents.
^^ Kenrick Plaza, huh? Well, that would put it directly across the street from a potential MetroLink station along the Metro South corridor. Nice to know that Shrewsbury is so interested in the TOD potential of the site, even if a MetroLink extension is 20+ years away. 
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If Walmart is given millions to locate in Shrewsbury, every taxpayer in the metro area will have been robbed again. What if, instead of handing Walmart and others millions of dollars, that money was used to fund transit?
One more reason a merger would make sense. Short of that, all municipalities in the metro area should sign agreement not to give TIF to large retailers. It's simply. With X residents and Y income Walmart is going to build Z stores, with or without TIF.
One more reason a merger would make sense. Short of that, all municipalities in the metro area should sign agreement not to give TIF to large retailers. It's simply. With X residents and Y income Walmart is going to build Z stores, with or without TIF.
Let be real, from Kenrick Plaza, that is a full 3.5 miles from the Walmart in Brentwood.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source= ... 85917&z=14
Why travel 3.5 miles when you can travel only 1.5!! /sarcasm
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source= ... 85917&z=14
Why travel 3.5 miles when you can travel only 1.5!! /sarcasm
^^ Of course, the argument is that "that money" would theoretically not exist if it wasn't for Wal-Mart to begin with...which is the scam that is why paid consultants promote TIF.
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On top of all positives (or perceived positives) of merging I’m very concerned with how we are perceived nationally. If we can find a way to consolidate so St. Louis isn't always plastered at the top of those Morgan Quito and Forbes lists, I think that would do a lot for region. I believe there is a large portion of the US population that only knows us as being dangerous, miserable, unhealthy smokers with stds.
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I don't smoke.Moorlander wrote:On top of all positives (or perceived positives) of merging I’m very concerned with how we are perceived nationally. If we can find a way to consolidate so St. Louis isn't always plastered at the top of those Morgan Quito and Forbes lists, I think that would do a lot for region. I believe there is a large portion of the US population that only knows us as being dangerous, miserable, unhealthy smokers with stds.
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I would have gone with 80%,Grover wrote:^ You're only 75% St. Lousian.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument
Slay aide, Clayton mayor talk regional cooperation
By Margaret Gillerman
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
03/26/2010
CLAYTON — A top aide to St. Louis Mayor Francis Slay says he hopes that a recent meeting over coffee with Clayton Mayor Linda Goldstein can lead to regional cooperation, instead of competition, over businesses and jobs.
Slay aide, Clayton mayor talk regional cooperation
By Margaret Gillerman
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
03/26/2010
CLAYTON — A top aide to St. Louis Mayor Francis Slay says he hopes that a recent meeting over coffee with Clayton Mayor Linda Goldstein can lead to regional cooperation, instead of competition, over businesses and jobs.
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^ If you can, please add a sentence or two about the story so that people can get an idea of what it says...
Basically, Jeff Rainford in Mayor Slay's office reached out to Clayton to begin talking about how they can work together to attract jobs and businesses to the region. Nothing of any real substance, but it's great that the city is reaching out. Clayton, Richmond Heights, and other communities likely understand that working together is better. I don't think there's a great chance of success in the near future - the whole thing reminds me of the co-op in The Wire.
Basically, Jeff Rainford in Mayor Slay's office reached out to Clayton to begin talking about how they can work together to attract jobs and businesses to the region. Nothing of any real substance, but it's great that the city is reaching out. Clayton, Richmond Heights, and other communities likely understand that working together is better. I don't think there's a great chance of success in the near future - the whole thing reminds me of the co-op in The Wire.
Sounds like the red light cameras and most recently the I-170 speed camera trap in Charlack are inspiring some talk about consolidating services/muni-mergers. At least they're talking about it on KMOX at the moment. Mark Reardon even supports it. I'm glad to hear this topic is getting more discussion.
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Someone else likely has a better, more complete answer, but I believe that the City could vote to dissolve and thereby become part of unincorporated STL County. Anyone else?
Previous attempts to change the system were pretty complicated.
When the City tried to merge with the County to form a "Federated District" in the 1950s, they had to form a "Board of Freeholders" and put the measure on the city, county, AND statewide ballots.
Essentially, the state would have to approve of the City of St. Louis (remember that St. Louis is a municipal body as well as its own county-equivalent) joining St. Louis County and adding to its boundaries. The CITY of St. Louis would still exist. St. Louis City as an independent city/county-equivalent would be dissolved. Altering county boundaries is difficult, I believe. But the conservative notion of the city joining the county as a municipality, rather than the two combining into one "city", should be easier.
When the City tried to merge with the County to form a "Federated District" in the 1950s, they had to form a "Board of Freeholders" and put the measure on the city, county, AND statewide ballots.
Essentially, the state would have to approve of the City of St. Louis (remember that St. Louis is a municipal body as well as its own county-equivalent) joining St. Louis County and adding to its boundaries. The CITY of St. Louis would still exist. St. Louis City as an independent city/county-equivalent would be dissolved. Altering county boundaries is difficult, I believe. But the conservative notion of the city joining the county as a municipality, rather than the two combining into one "city", should be easier.
so if this happens, will the population of ST Louis stay the same or would they count Saint Louis county(including the city) as a whole?
If St. Louis City joined the County, its population would remain the same. St. Louis County's population would jump from just under a million to 1,350,000, which, I believe, would put it into the Top 25 most populous counties in the country.
If you need help picturing the change, think of Chesterfield. It's a municipality within St. Louis County. That's what St. Louis would be under Slay's proposal--just another city within St. Louis County. However, we'd be the largest.
Of real interest to me is the county seat issue. With St. Louis City inside the County, the County's county seat would almost definitely remain in Clayton. This isn't a problem, per se, but is still confusing to outsiders. Why would St. Louis County's seat not be St. Louis? So all of the City's "county" offices--like Sheriff and Recorder of Deeds--would be lost to Clayton. I don't think this is a huge deal, but I could see some in the city with wounded pride resisting this change.
If you need help picturing the change, think of Chesterfield. It's a municipality within St. Louis County. That's what St. Louis would be under Slay's proposal--just another city within St. Louis County. However, we'd be the largest.
Of real interest to me is the county seat issue. With St. Louis City inside the County, the County's county seat would almost definitely remain in Clayton. This isn't a problem, per se, but is still confusing to outsiders. Why would St. Louis County's seat not be St. Louis? So all of the City's "county" offices--like Sheriff and Recorder of Deeds--would be lost to Clayton. I don't think this is a huge deal, but I could see some in the city with wounded pride resisting this change.
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Would a county name-change be out of the question if Clayton were to remain the county seat?stldotage wrote: Of real interest to me is the county seat issue. With St. Louis City inside the County, the County's county seat would almost definitely remain in Clayton. This isn't a problem, per se, but is still confusing to outsiders. Why would St. Louis County's seat not be St. Louis?
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I assume Clayton would stay the county seat, and no names would change. It was already odd that St. Louis wasn't in St. Louis County. And that the county seat of St. Louis County was Clayton and not St. Louis. So why would any of that change? I wonder if there is any concern that the city might try to annex parts of South County or North county where it is not boxed in by other cities if it re-entered St. Louis County.
I would hope that a city - county merger would also merge the police deparments. Not only would that save some money and direct some county money into the city high crime areas, which would make us all safer, but it would also set up combined reporting to the FBI. St. Louis would instantly fall in crime rankings to become a much safer city in all the lists -- more in line with most other cities that combine core numbers with suburban numbers. (which shows the facacy of the lists if you can drastically change your rank just by annexation vs. actual crime reduction.)
Per the discussion, I think the city will become a city within the county.
St. Louis City's population won't change.
Clayton will still be the county seat (with satellite offices downtown)
What I would like to see more, is the state corralling the 'Balkan' cities — Velda Village, Bel Noir, Vinita Park, Bel-Ridge, etc. — into one city.
St. Louis City's population won't change.
Clayton will still be the county seat (with satellite offices downtown)
What I would like to see more, is the state corralling the 'Balkan' cities — Velda Village, Bel Noir, Vinita Park, Bel-Ridge, etc. — into one city.