JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Jan 25, 2022

(except the streets comprising the F1 circuit through Forrest Park and Lindell I’ve mapped out in my pipe dreams for StL).

That would be awesome. Maybe with the start/finish line on Kingshighway.

framer wrote: ↑

Jan 25, 2022

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Jan 25, 2022

(except the streets comprising the F1 circuit through Forrest Park and Lindell I’ve mapped out in my pipe dreams for StL).

That would be awesome. Maybe with the start/finish line on Kingshighway.

I too am intrigued by this. Access to Barnes would be critical, so you'd have to be careful around Kingshighway. But I can see advantages to having it sticking to the northeast corner of the park and jogging into the Central West End. For starters, the setting would be gorgeous and you'd have lots of great views from balconies. And some of the narrower streets and tighter corners would make natural chicanes to keep the speeds down to non-lethal levels. (I for one am more interested in folks taking corners moderately fast than straight of ways insanely fast. The more corners the better.) Maybe cross Kingshighway at Forest Park and West Pine. That way the only part of Barnes trapped in the loop would be the parking garage and the outpatient tower. Alternately you stick to the northwest corner of the park and go down Grand and Lagoon and use Art Hill as your big viewing stand. (In which case maybe you make the finish line the bottom of Art Hill.) That keeps it entirely away from everything critical and the only thing "trapped" inside the circuit is maybe the history museum. (And they could have some great views if you build a temporary pedestrian bridge for access.)

Wouldn’t you want shot of the Cars flying past the WF pavilion and the Grand Basin/Art Hill?

^Heck, I'd want shots of the cars flying past everything, but you're probably right, the norhtwest side of the park is probably better. I'm thinking in terms of what level of disruption would be practical and how long a lap you can have. Sebring's 3.7 miles, and it has the reputation of being a long track, so I figure four is probably a good top limit and I was trying to keep it around 3.5 ideally. If you put your starting line by the basin at the foot of Art Hill you could start with a little bit of a straight section and then some gentle curves before hitting the first brutal 90 at Skinker. If you take it from there up to Forest Park you could have a pretty nice straight section over to DeBaliviere, where you could turn right and do the loop around the museum, which could be pretty darned picturesque and quite challenging. A temporary pedestrian bridge could even give access for VIP suites at the museum itself. From there you could either make a right back out onto Forest Park and then on to the Lindell exit for a longer loop or a sharp right directly onto Lindell off DB to shave the distance down a little. Whichever way you go you could head back into the park at Cricket Drive and then back to the starting line where you'd have your main reviewing stands near the Grand Basin. Hand out the trophy right at basin with the Art Museum in the background. Pit row could be either on the west end of Lindell or the north side of Forrest Park Parkway. The slightly longer version of the loop is a bit over 3.7 miles, so about Sebring length. And that has the advantage that it doesn't close down Kingshighway, which would be difficult at best. But in the end I'm just spitballing. And I'm not that much of a race fan, so my ideas are more movie/videogame inspired than anything else. If you're more of a race fan you'll probably have much better ideas. (It was your idea, after all.) Whatever you plan I'll watch.

I don't know. You need to be able to accommodate the starting grid at the start/finish point and I don't think that is suited well to the Grand Basin area. 

How about S/F on Oakland Avenue by old Deaconess property. 
Head west along Oakland to turn 1, right on Tamm into the Park.
Turn 2 L on Wells. turns 3, 4 and 5 winding along Wells.
Turn 6 clockwise around the outside of the circle and on to Government Drive.
Turn 7 is a long right hand bend through the woods to turn 8 which is a slight jog to the left.
Turn 9 a hard left onto Fine Arts Drive, up the hill, past SLAM and the Apotheosis.
Turns 10 and 11 sweeping right handers on Fine Arts/Lagoon to get you to the Grand Basin.
Turn 12 a left to turn 13 a right onto Grand Drive at the Tennis Center.
Turn 14 a tame left before turn 15 a hard right onto Cricket Drive.
Turn 16 a hard left to follow Cricket into turn 17, a long, right bend around the Pagoda and in front of the Muny.
Turn 18 a hard left onto Government Drive, Turn 19 a slight right before the straight in front of the Spanish Pavilion.
Turn 20 hard left onto Washington past the flight cage at turn 21.
Turn 22 right onto Hampton, a chicane to get around the circle at Hampton and Wells.
Cross the bridge, turn 23 hard right back onto Oakland and across the line.

Almost 4 1/2 miles so probably too long but would show off some of the Park's premier attractions. 

F1 coming to St Louis would be awesome but obviously highly unlikely. F1 is adding a 2nd US grand prix this year with the race in Miami to accompany the Austin race. There are talks that F1 and Liberty Media (the parent company) want a 3rd US race, with the current rumors being in Vegas or in Indy using the speedway's road course. 

However, in saying all of that i could definitly see the possibility where Indycar could move the St Louis race to a street track in Forest park from the oval at WWT Raceway. World Wide is a beloved oval track among Indycar drivers however there has been a push in recent years to try and shift more of the races to road courses or street tracks as they are often much safer than the ovals. IF this becomes a bigger push in the future I could definitly see this as a real potential.

framer wrote: ↑

Jan 25, 2022

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Jan 25, 2022

(except the streets comprising the F1 circuit through Forrest Park and Lindell I’ve mapped out in my pipe dreams for StL).

That would be awesome. Maybe with the start/finish line on Kingshighway.

While F1 coming to STL would be awesome (and awesome for STL), and while the start/finish on Kingshighway along the park would be amazing scenery, I doubt Barnes hospital would be thrilled with it.

Maybe a start/finish along Skinker or FPP?

Black02AltimaSE wrote: ↑

Jan 26, 2022

I don't know. You need to be able to accommodate the starting grid at the start/finish point and I don't think that is suited well to the Grand Basin area. 

How about S/F on Oakland Avenue by old Deaconess property. 
Head west along Oakland to turn 1, right on Tamm into the Park.
Turn 2 L on Wells. turns 3, 4 and 5 winding along Wells.
Turn 6 clockwise around the outside of the circle and on to Government Drive.
Turn 7 is a long right hand bend through the woods to turn 8 which is a slight jog to the left.
Turn 9 a hard left onto Fine Arts Drive, up the hill, past SLAM and the Apotheosis.
Turns 10 and 11 sweeping right handers on Fine Arts/Lagoon to get you to the Grand Basin.
Turn 12 a left to turn 13 a right onto Grand Drive at the Tennis Center.
Turn 14 a tame left before turn 15 a hard right onto Cricket Drive.
Turn 16 a hard left to follow Cricket into turn 17, a long, right bend around the Pagoda and in front of the Muny.
Turn 18 a hard left onto Government Drive, Turn 19 a slight right before the straight in front of the Spanish Pavilion.
Turn 20 hard left onto Washington past the flight cage at turn 21.
Turn 22 right onto Hampton, a chicane to get around the circle at Hampton and Wells.
Cross the bridge, turn 23 hard right back onto Oakland and across the line.

Almost 4 1/2 miles so probably too long but would show off some of the Park's premier attractions. 

Did a quick track design for fun based off your turn ideas for a visual.

Overall looks like a fun circuit with a lot of challenging turns.  I'd love to have the visual of the finish line being closer to Oakland and Skinker to have the huge Amoco sign looming over the race.

Of course, the Zoo's residents may not like the intense noise created by an F1 race. Would probably be a real problem, actually. 

^You found the one flaw in the plan. 
It's fun to dream. Honestly, I would rather have it in Downtown/Downtown West if we were ever to get an F1 race in St. Louis.

framer wrote: ↑

Jan 27, 2022

Of course, the Zoo's residents may not like the intense noise created by an F1 race. Would probably be a real problem, actually. 

Maybe Formula E?  I know it's not as snazzy, but it might be a good proof of concept for STL?

i know y'all are just fantasizing, but a big NO to cars driving fast through Forest Park or really anywhere else in the city, spewing noise and pollution, leaving skid marks everywhere, and probably careening into things. it's a pedestrian space. enough with cars invading pedestrian spaces.

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^Aw, c'mon, you're advocating your hipster ideas in your hipster ways for your hipster bicycles and pedestrian centric paths . . . I think those of us who perhaps drive little red stinky benzine machines a little too fast every once in a while are more like y to be grumpy old men. With lawns. (In the city.) . . . 

But dear lord, people. Let's be responsible about this and not crash our stink boxes into the local grocery store. Or people. Let's at least try to be responsible grumpy old men and restrict our silliness to appropriate places and times and not get ourselves or anyone else killed. Yeesh! Also trains. How about a train race track? I hear those really corner like they're on rails. I suppose we used to have a train race track next to Forest Park. Kind of wish we still did. Somebody put one in Union Station already!

Okay, I'm off the rails here. Sorry.

I like the Formula E idea. And I certainly don't want to ruin anyone's pedestrian experience. Just looking for cool things that say "made in St. Louis" on them.  Stamp that trophy with an arch and send it out to the world.

In prep for the 2004 celebration (some time in 2002)  Mayor Slay talked about bringing a F1 race to St. Louis, I think the USGP was on hiatus at the time before Austin TX invested in creating a circuit. While I love the idea, I am not sure if St. Louis glitzy enough to make a serious bid these days. F1 is big international money 

symphonicpoet wrote:^Aw, c'mon, you're advocating your hipster ideas in your hipster ways for your hipster bicycles and pedestrian centric paths . . . I think those of us who perhaps drive little red stinky benzine machines a little too fast every once in a while are more like y to be grumpy old men. With lawns. (In the city.) . . . 

But dear lord, people. Let's be responsible about this and not crash our stink boxes into the local grocery store. Or people. Let's at least try to be responsible grumpy old men and restrict our silliness to appropriate places and times and not get ourselves or anyone else killed. Yeesh! Also trains. How about a train race track? I hear those really corner like they're on rails. I suppose we used to have a train race track next to Forest Park. Kind of wish we still did. Somebody put one in Union Station already!

Okay, I'm off the rails here. Sorry.

I like the Formula E idea. And I certainly don't want to ruin anyone's pedestrian experience. Just looking for cool things that say "made in St. Louis" on them.  Stamp that trophy with an arch and send it out to the world.

I also don’t think one event per year ruins the pedestrian experience of the park. It’s not like theyre moving the raceway into Forest Park.


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^ but Forest Park is a pedestrian and wildlife sanctuary in a car-infested region. there are SO MANY other places for an event like this. SO MUCH LAND has been given to car culture. can we please just have a handful of spaces that remain free from it? it's bad enough that Forest Park and Tower Grove Park are as open to traffic as they currently are...

^ Completely agree. I have thoroughly enjoyed TGP's recent car-free days initative. It's so much nicer to walk/run in the park without having to bother about drivers.

If we're all daydreaming in this thread... I'd say that any route should include Leonard K. Sullivan Blvd and and then crossing the river on the Eads before circling back towards downtown.  

I always thought the redone I-64 would be perfect for a leg of it.

Also, I know this is only fantasy, but all of these city streets would definitely need to get major facelifts for competitive motorsports.

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2022

^ but Forest Park is a pedestrian and wildlife sanctuary in a car-infested region. there are SO MANY other places for an event like this. SO MUCH LAND has been given to car culture. can we please just have a handful of spaces that remain free from it? it's bad enough that Forest Park and Tower Grove Park are as open to traffic as they currently are...

Because it would be iconic. It would be Monte Carlo of the US. F1 isn’t coming to our flood plain oval that’s a 9 iron from a garbage dump. No one is suggesting turning forest park into a year round speedway. Ideally, it’s be a 3 year cycle.

Furthermore, forest park is an event space replete with attractions, museums, theaters, a tennis arena, a train track, parking lots, and roads. It is by no means a “pedestrian and wildlife sanctuary”

^ ok. i totally disagree. in any case it's never gonna happen so...