urbanSTL

You have to remember that the Archdiocese of Saint Louis insists the parking lot that replaced the former Deville Motor Hotel/San Luis Building is a green parking lot, I suppose because it has trees in medians. Yes, the leaves are green, but there's obviously nothing green about the acres of tarmac that replaced a building that could have been reused (in an urban and green context, of course). That is perhaps the most delusional example out there!

As I said before, I'll reserve final judgment until I see more specific details about the project. Perhaps even a skeptic like me will be pleasantly surprised by the finished product.

Agreed. I could talk about SLU/Biondi's detriment to the urban fabric all day but I'll keep it short, for now...

The Archdiocese (can't say too much since I'm Catholic) and especially Biondi and Co. seem to have this 'belief' that green turf lawns, blue water (fountains) and sparsely planted trees (aka suburbia) is the way to go.

Atleast there's hope given SLU's investment in Downtown...

Please remember that there is approximately zero connection between "the archdiocese" and "Biondi and Co."

bonwich wrote:Please remember that there is approximately zero connection between "the archdiocese" and "Biondi and Co."

I was simply referring to both the Archdiocese and SLU/Biondi's transformations of converting urban sites into 'suburban'-style sites, i.e. SLU/Biondi - Doisy Research Center (large green turf, fountains, parking lots, building structure has no connection to sidewalk/streetscape, auto-centric site); Archdiocese - Parking Lot (loss of structure (argue over urban design) but anchored the streetscape and intersection, parking lot increases Urban Island Heat Effect, no urban identity, auto-centric site).

Though I do give credit to the Archdiocese for the innovation parking lot design, grass-crete stalls (no pavement, reinforced turf), and connection to streetscape. The Doisy Center should get credit for its contemporary design and LEED credit but a building that receives any LEED certification is useless when it is located on the site without any connection to the neighborhood and neighborhood context. Developers and private organizations need to follow LEED for Neighborhood Development first, and LEED for New Construction, etc. later.

We can design indoor malls but surround them with acres of parking and it receives LEED certification - The LEED system is broken.

That's my rant for now...

It will be interesting to see if this project gets awarded New Market Tax credits as SLDC was recently awarded $50 million in tax credit for which a quarter has to go towards adressing "food projects". Would like to see the remaining credits going toward Grand Center Hyatt proposal and/or Jefferson Arms project downtown if it gets them over the hump in terms of financing.


http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 0f31a.html

Two St. Louis-area organizations, and a third group with a large office in Clayton, received a combined $230 million in federal New Markets Tax Credits, the U.S. Department of Treasury said Thursday.

The credits are designed to draw investment in businesses and real estate projects in low-income neighborhoods. Recipients - typically banks and community development groups - offer the credits as an incentive to investors in projects in qualifying Census tracts. They are worth 39 cents on the dollar, so the $230 million equates to $89.7 million.

In past years in St. Louis, these credits have been used to help fund everything from downtown office projects to equity investments in local businesses.

Recipients with local ties include:

U.S. Bancorp Community Development Corp., which is based in St. Louis but works on tax-credit financing nationwide, received a $100 million award.
St. Louis Development Corp., the city-run development agency, received $50 million.
Advantage Capital Community Development Fund, which is based in New Orleans but has a large office in Clayton, received $80 million.
The funds do not have to be used in a recipient's home region - though they likely will be in the case of SLDC - and projects here have drawn New Markets credits from national lenders in the past.

This year, the awards include a set-aside to finance "healthy food" projects in so-called "food deserts" - areas with little access to quality groceries. One-fourth of SLDC's award must go toward healthy food financing, and one-fifth of U.S. Bancorp's.

Lee Harvey those captions were HILARIOUS! I only got thorugh 2 pages worth. loved the dog ones.

Word has it that the site is getting a Save A Lot and ACE Hardware as the first 2 occupants

stl8580 wrote:Word has it that the site is getting a Save A Lot and ACE Hardware as the first 2 occupants

Save A Lot? Don't like that... there is a Save A Lot literally a few blocks south at Jefferson and Cherokee.

^That is fairly close. I wonder if they are relocating.

Highly unlikely that this is a relocation. Save a Lot is in the midst of an aggressive expansion targeting food deserts. This fits that profile very nicely, since the Lafayette Square area is in a USDA defined food desert. Plus the two stores are about 1.6 miles apart, which isn't that close for a smaller grocery store. They have similarly located stores in the KC area.

Sav a lot is ghetto. Terrible terrible news. The food desert remains....

I mean, I'll shop there but this isn't exactly what I'd call "momentum" when you're trying to get the hood on the upswing.

Save a lot has boomed during the recession. They'll thrive in this location.

That part of the Gate has a number of subsidized housing units. Those people have to eat too.

I'm sometimes confused by people's reaction to this type of thing. You value diversity, or so you say, but you have a problem when businesses that cater to people of diversity come in to serve them?

Truth be told I'd rather shop at SavAlot than Traders Joes, not a fan. I'm just saying that it's a bit of a letdown. It's better than nothing. But it's certainly not something that you can look at as a turning point. I imagine a lot of people in Soulard and Lafayette Square will still drive to the burbs to do their grocery shopping. Not me because I'll be at SavAlot because I'm a tad ghetto muhself.

Alex Ihnen wrote:Not the reaction I would have expected.

Why not? Do YOU shop at SavAlot? Have you ever shopped at SavAlot? Do you like off-brand soup?

But, seriously, maybe this SavAlot will come to be known as the "nice SavAlot". I'm not bashing it seriously. Let's give it a chance.

Alex Ihnen wrote:Wow - Sav-A-Lot is "ghetto" and people in subsidized housing have to eat too? Not the reaction I would have expected. Hopefully people try this Sav-A-Lot before blowing it off.

Yeah, its offensive to call Sav-A-Lot ghetto (from what I've seen they keep their stores and lots clean so that's a huge plus), but I'm pretty sure they know their market isn't the folks that live on Longfellow in Compton Heights (or people in Lafayette Sq condos, new houses in the Gates District, etc.).

Any idea what sort of critical mass of potential customers a Sav-A-Lot needs to be successful? It would seem that south of Russell is already served by the existing store and west of Compton might overlap with the market for the supermarket at Grand and Magnolia. At that location, I think you're looking at the portion of the Gates District that hasn't been torn and replaced with new housing, the subsidized housing b/t Lafayette Sq and Soulard and the non-gentrified areas on the outskirts of Lafayette Square. At least to me, that seems like a rather disjointed and not very large market area.

I worked at SAL in Florissant through high school and two years of college. I still have a very good friend that works in their corporate hq.

I firmly agree that SAL is not a "transformative" addition to this site insofar as its inability to provide a grocer for wealthy urbanites. SAL's business model caters to the middle-low end of consumers and those that are not concerned with food branding. Their offerings, in my opinion, aren't nearly as good as Aldi, a store that shares ownership with TJs and can better serve a wider consumer demographic.

That said, poor folks need to eat and they often do so through subsidy. SAL is extremely adept at cornering this market. Thus, this new location should be wildly profitable. I wouldn't be surprised if they shutter the Jefferson/Cherokee locale. Archaic grocery infrastructure is wildly expensive to maintain. However, if there newly built store in pagedale is any indication, the store should actually look pretty nice. And, getting rid of the SAL on Cherokee opens the door for a boutique grocer to serve the neighborhood.

ttricamo wrote:That said, poor folks need to eat and they often do so through subsidy. SAL is extremely adept at cornering this market.

Oh that's great. This isn't about depriving poor people from eating or shopping with poor people or EBT cards (although I have a friend at Culinaria who says people with EBT cards are hands down the rudest most demanding ridiculous customers). This is about PROGRESS for everyone. I goofed around and got on food stamps in the early 90s when I was doing nothing (although I usually traded them for drugs it was friggin hysterical, very common practice if you don't know). But I moved on....anyway..

Everything about SAL screams "Please bring your EBT card in here and buy our cakes and chips and processed meat stuffs!!!". Cmon, you've seen it. That ain't progress.

Think SAL will be the clincher for someone on the fence about moving to the city? No. "Honey, they're building a SavAlot around the corner from that house we looked at in the city!!!". No.

Wait, is this actually a step BACKWARD? Wonder if those fancy people on Lafayette Square are happy about bringing that SAL crowd just a little closer to their doorstep?

the central scrutinizer wrote:

doug wrote:Save-A-Lot is a dump. Lets not beat around the bush. Poor people need affordable food, but I believe higher end places like Schnucks take food stamps.

Not all poor people are on food stamps.

Wait what's going on here? Is CS tryin to flip the game on Doug?
Of course, we know not all poor people are rocking EBT
because we have all been "poor" and we weren't rocking EBT.
I'm confused. This whole topic and forum is bad for me mental health.

This news is extremely disappointing. The only thing I know about the current Save-A-Lot on Jefferson is the guy who sells bootleg dvds in the parking lot. So while I can't speak for the SAL company and the way they run their stores, I can say that the products that they sell are no better than what you can find in a convenience store. Their prices are low because the off-brands are just fillers...made of oils and highly processed foods and preservatives. You would be better off eating a Snicker's bar from the gas station next door than eating a slice of cheese from a store like Save-A-Lot. This store does very little to serve the neighborhood other than a quick stop for bread, milk or basic produce. Knowing that we have people trying their best to raise a family in Fox Park, Eads Park etc., I could not see any of them doing a full grocery run at Save-A-Lot.