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PostMar 20, 2013#151

Y'all know what? Some people really want this setup.

I bet there are plenty of people in and around the area (especially in the Gate District and Dutchtown) that will happily shop here. Sure, it's not going to be the same high-end crowd that shops Culinaria, but it will serve an existing need.

Plus, some of these future shoppers are going to want to drive here and really do need to drive to the grocery. If this had no big parking lots, it would die off quickly, especially when there's competition just up Gravois with big parking lots: the Schnucks at Grand, and the Save-A-Lot between Hydraulic and Chippewa.

Remember, this is still a food desert, that the old Schnucks on South Broadway next to 55 remains closed down, and that small grocers like Vincent's don't fulfill the needs of many people who are excited to start shopping at the future grocery. It's not the most urban of sites from an aesthetic stance, but it will meet the needs and demands of many shoppers who live nearby. And anecdotally, while I didn't necesarily want the new Dollar General along South Broadway near Soulard, let me say that it has not sunk the neighborhood by being a couple blocks down from where I live.

This is a good development, helping end a food desert and fixing a craphole strip mall. It's still a strip mall, but it's not the mess that it had been for decades. Take some small solace there.

You know what I want? The other side of Jefferson to be built up to the streets on all those blocks where it isn't. I'd like that old building near the corner of Lafayette & Jefferson to be converted into apartments. That's the fight worth fighting, I think. Could the strip mall's construction help these sites become more viable? I sure hope so. And when those get built, they'll by necessity be done in a much more "urban" aesthetic.

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PostMar 20, 2013#152

The socio-economic argument about attracting the wrong element might not be very helpful. What we had was a bad, abandoned strip mall. Now, we're getting a much improved, occupied strip mall. Would we dream of better? Of course. But this will look better than most strip malls.

I feel like folks have a view of services on the near south side that's about five years out of date. I see the grocery options for folks in Lafayette Square improving greatly. Soon, residents will have within a 1.5 mile radius a full service grocery (Culinaria), a discount grocer (Save-a-Lot), a large farmer's market (Soulard), a higher-end locavore specialty market (Food Hub), several small markets and 473 Walgreens locations. That range of close grocery options will make the near south side as well-serviced as any suburban locale.

Except for a Trader Joes, of course. But that's another topic ... or maybe it isn't. I don't know. Maybe we're all just disappointed that the Save-a-Lot isn't a Trader Joes. Maybe that's what's really wrong with this development. :D

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PostMar 20, 2013#153

Presbyterian wrote: Except for a Trader Joes, of course. But that's another topic ... or maybe it isn't. I don't know. Maybe we're all just disappointed that the Save-a-Lot isn't a Trader Joes. Maybe that's what's really wrong with this development. :D
Hit the nail on the head!

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PostMar 21, 2013#154

This is obviously oversimplification, but what is going to get more desirable retail options, be it here, downtown, in Soulard or wherever is more density. That is the bottom line for any retailer and 100x so for any multi site operator or chain (aka Trader Joe's). There are still a fair number of vacant buildings and land development sites either in or within very close proximity to this location including those Gone Corporate mentions at Lafayette & Jefferson and the empty 4 family directly across the street and a walk through Soulard, Benton Park, and even Lafayette Square can reveal more. When multiple buildings can sit vacant in some of our strongest city neighborhoods for years it tells me that housing demand, while far greater than 10 or 20 years ago, is not quite where it needs to be to start having a real shot at landing upper echelon retail.

To finish on a positive note, the trends in these neighborhoods are clearly increasingly favorable and for every minor or moderate success story such as the conversion of this site from an vacant eyesore to a productive & visually improved retail center, that builds a stronger retail base that the higher end retail will eventually look to capitalize on. And certainly services like a grocer, fitness center, etc do serve residents which should help to develop more residential density until a neighborhood reaches critical mass.

I was told by a commercial broker once, retailers dont care as much about YOUR numbers (rent, CAM, pass throughs, etc) as they do about their numbers (demographics, car/foot counts, dollars available to capture, # of households/persons in 1, 3, 5 radius, etc). When their numbers work they will be there.

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PostMar 22, 2013#155

Yup. We Urbanists on this board do tend to put the cart before the horse a bit.

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PostMar 27, 2013#156

I have to say the site does look very urban and very contemporary.
Nicely redone.

Now, I also noticed a new out parcel building being built - has a drive thru window. Anyone know what it is going to be? Doesn't look like a "normal" fast food construct. Maybe a modern Wendy's like Hampton's new Wendy's or maybe a new Starbucks?

Anyone know?

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PostMar 27, 2013#157

Part of that out parcel will be a Subway.

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PostMar 27, 2013#158

We need some pics, please.

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PostApr 08, 2013#159

Quick drive by photos...

Save a lot
Blast fitness

Family dollar

Subway and a drive thru tenant out lot

PostApr 23, 2013#160

New siign says Subway will have a drive thru.

I don't recall any Subway locations that have a drive thru.

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PostApr 23, 2013#161

Most, if not all, Subways here in Central IL have drivethroughs. It's not very time-friendly though (but people who are autocentric probably don't care)

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PostApr 23, 2013#162

There is a subway up at Natural Bridge and Kingshighway that has a drive through.

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PostApr 23, 2013#163

flipz wrote:There is a subway up at Natural Bridge and Kingshighway that has a drive through.
Thats interesting...

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PostMay 07, 2013#164

Trees planted in parking lot, sign facing Jefferson installed, H&R Block signage installed...Blast Fitness seems to be doing well, lots of people in the early evening, anyhow. By the way, how many family dollars does a city need? The one at this site is now open and they are opening another right across from the Way Out Club just north of Jefferson/Gravois.

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PostMay 07, 2013#165

Mark Groth wrote:Trees planted in parking lot, sign facing Jefferson installed, H&R Block signage installed...Blast Fitness seems to be doing well, lots of people in the early evening, anyhow. By the way, how many family dollars does a city need? The one at this site is now open and they are opening another right across from the Way Out Club just north of Jefferson/Gravois.
I wouldn't be surprised if you see them keep building dollar stores until another Target or a Walmart store comes to the city. At that point, I think retail mix becomes better and a lot more competitive between the dollar stores/Walgreens of the world/Target. In the meantime, dollar stores seems like playing small ball - a hit here, a bunt there, trying to get a walk there. Soon you have some base runners in scoring position and got a pretty good corner on the market and then hope your opponents DH doens't send one over the fences with runners on base during the bottom half.

I have to believe with population stablizing, demographics improving in a number of neighborhoods and some growth in retail that another Target or two can't be supported within the city limits - either midtown or north/west downtown. Still think it would be more desireable for one of Target's urban style store with underground parking than a Walmart with a sea of parking as part of McKee's northside development. But who knows, maybe when they rebuild 21st/22nd street they do a Target near Union Station as part of the mix.

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PostAug 05, 2013#166

So the building is done and no Save a Lot. Anyone know the story here? Sure would love it if it was an Aldi instead.

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PostAug 21, 2013#167


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PostAug 21, 2013#168

Nice writeup. When is the Save-a-lot moving into the building? Whenever I drive by there, judging by the amount of cars, the gym seems to be attracting a decent number of people.

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PostAug 21, 2013#169

"WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE ENOUGH PARKING FOR PEOPLE TO DRIVE TO THE GYM!"

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PostNov 07, 2013#170

Looks like the Sav-A-Lot is almost ready for business. The grand opening is scheduled for 11/14/13.

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PostNov 07, 2013#171

mjbais1489 wrote:"WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE ENOUGH PARKING FOR PEOPLE TO DRIVE TO THE GYM!"
Sounds like a great t-shirt!

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