I don't think any of that falls into LHA's shtick of being against things that other people are for because they're all "sheeple" and (s)he know what's really up, though.kipfilet wrote:That's how things work, whether you like it or not. The Amazon HQ debacle was this on steroids. While it was ultimately inconsequential, I think it is a good case study of the dynamics at work: you can only attract high value-added investment if you can also attract qualified talent. Said talent does not want to move to places that are unable to offer basic "amenities" (I am calling them like this because some people might dislike what they really are -- basic human rights). This phenomenon is very salient in some of the latest editions of the St. Louis Fed's Beige Book. Some places are unable to offer said amenities for primarily economic reasons (most of Latin America, Africa, etc.). Other places refuse to supply these amenities for political reasons -- this is the case of Missouri. As I said above, this is fine if that is what most of the constituents want, but then please stop complaining about dying cities or brain drains.leeharveyawesome wrote: I just think some people are a little too preoccupied about as to whether or not cool people from cool places also think that they're a cool person from a cool place. It's just kind of sad. That's all.
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Exactly. I don't think many people really think about moving to one particular state; rather they move to cities that offer what they want.goat314 wrote: I do find it interesting that places like Dallas, Atlanta, Nashville, and Charlotte are booming despite being in very conservative states.
I'd argue otherwise. That may be how we think but most people do not. For reasons I can't figure out, Americans have an obsession with State culture. The awful "best pizza in every state" clickbait articles should be proof enough. People know that St. Louis is in Missouri, they know we have a tall metal bendy thing. That's it. They don't know we're on the edge of the state, they don't know that the city and county vote blue every 4 years. They're clueless to the deeply embedded history and culture, something I'd otherwise be modest of but am increasingly realizing surpasses many of our peer cities.framer wrote:Exactly. I don't think many people really think about moving to one particular state; rather they move to cities that offer what they want.goat314 wrote: I do find it interesting that places like Dallas, Atlanta, Nashville, and Charlotte are booming despite being in very conservative states.
I get what your saying, but again. Nashville is growing and it is a more conservative town than St. Louis in a state that is just as conservative if not more conservative than Missouri. Nashville also just voted down light rail transit and is totally suburban in nature. Yet it is growing like a weed. Probably because the state government is doing a better job marketing and creating jobs in their respective state. You also can't assume that the overwhelming number of people that move around have a particularly political ideology. I've met highly educated people that talk like Rush Limbaugh and uneducated people that are die-hard liberals. At the end of the day the only thing that will make a particular place attract major migration are job opportunities. That's why Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Phoenix, Charlotte, etc. are growing. That is also why Minneapolis, Seattle, Denver, DC etc. are growing. Totally different cultures, but the consistent them is well funded infrastructure, job opportunities, and openness to investment.aprice wrote:I'd argue otherwise. That may be how we think but most people do not. For reasons I can't figure out, Americans have an obsession with State culture. The awful "best pizza in every state" clickbait articles should be proof enough. People know that St. Louis is in Missouri, they know we have a tall metal bendy thing. That's it. They don't know we're on the edge of the state, they don't know that the city and county vote blue every 4 years. They're clueless to the deeply embedded history and culture, something I'd otherwise be modest of but am increasingly realizing surpasses many of our peer cities.framer wrote:Exactly. I don't think many people really think about moving to one particular state; rather they move to cities that offer what they want.goat314 wrote: I do find it interesting that places like Dallas, Atlanta, Nashville, and Charlotte are booming despite being in very conservative states.
Americans, or the American media? There's nothing the media loves better than a label. It makes their jobs so much easier.aprice wrote:
I'd argue otherwise. That may be how we think but most people do not. For reasons I can't figure out, Americans have an obsession with State culture. The awful "best pizza in every state" clickbait articles should be proof enough. People know that St. Louis is in Missouri, they know we have a tall metal bendy thing. That's it. They don't know we're on the edge of the state, they don't know that the city and county vote blue every 4 years. They're clueless to the deeply embedded history and culture, something I'd otherwise be modest of but am increasingly realizing surpasses many of our peer cities.
Oh there you go again, pointing out reality and whatnot...goat314 wrote: I get what your saying, but again. Nashville is growing and it is a more conservative town than St. Louis in a state that is just as conservative if not more conservative than Missouri. Nashville also just voted down light rail transit and is totally suburban in nature. Yet it is growing like a weed. Probably because the state government is doing a better job marketing and creating jobs in their respective state. You also can't assume that the overwhelming number of people that move around have a particularly political ideology. I've met highly educated people that talk like Rush Limbaugh and uneducated people that are die-hard liberals. At the end of the day the only thing that will make a particular place attract major migration are job opportunities. That's why Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Phoenix, Charlotte, etc. are growing. That is also why Minneapolis, Seattle, Denver, DC etc. are growing. Totally different cultures, but the consistent them is well funded infrastructure, job opportunities, and openness to investment.
As an aside, I think Nashville is a special case. Some of the growth there has to do with the decline of both the rust-belt areas to the north and the rural areas and smaller urban areas around it and in adjacent states, and that area has long lacked a regional economic "capital". Add to that that it is geographically-blessed in terms of natural scenery and amenities, with a comfortable four season climate, a very low cost of living, etc., etc.
Aside deux, you forgot Austin, the fastest-growing city and metro area in the country...and it's in a red state.
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Not entirely sure where to put this, but lord, Missouri is an absolute shitshow.
State effort to tax Wash U's endowment 'deeply disappointing,' would cost $150M, school says
State effort to tax Wash U's endowment 'deeply disappointing,' would cost $150M, school says
I doubt this has any traction, but honestly nothing MOLeg does anymore surprises me.A state push to tax Washington University's huge endowment over abortion concerns would cost the school $150 million annually and take "vital resources away from the important work we do in support of the region and the state," it said.
The bill, from state Sen. Mike Moon, R-Ash Grove, beginning next year would impose a 1.9% tax on the university's multibillion-dollar endowment, but also reduce the top state income tax rate by 0.17%, to make the measure revenue neutral.
The legislation says it applies to universities that are affiliated with an abortion facility, offer medical residencies that offer training in performing abortions or support "in any manner" an abortion facility where the procedure is performed "when not necessary to save the life of the mother."
Moon didn't respond to a request for comment, but told The Pathway, a publication of the Missouri Baptist Convention, that Washington University "trains students to perform abortions." The publication described Wash U as having a "partnership" with Planned Parenthood.
"These students are then hired to murder developing human babies across our nation," Moon said. "They won't stop on their own. This will place a financial hardship on their ability to train these students."
A spokeswoman for Planned Parenthood, whose Central West End facility provides abortion services, didn't immediately respond to a request for information about any affiliation with the university.
Washington University also didn't explain it, but acknowledged that Moon's bill would have a detrimental effect on the university.
"It is deeply disappointing that some of our elected officials are taking aim at our endowment, which is a primary source of funding for Washington University's many significant contributions to the state, the nation and the world," the school said in a statement to the Business Journal.
It also said that the endowment "makes it possible for us to conduct groundbreaking research on therapies for cancer, Alzheimer's, autism and other serious, life-altering conditions."
[...]
The university also alleged that the measure would "be one of the largest tax increases imposed by the General Assembly in many years, costing more than $150 million annually and taking vital resources away from the important work we do in support of the region and the state."
"We strongly oppose any efforts to tax university endowments and encourage our elected officials to reconsider this misguided proposal," it said.
The bill, No. 451, has been referred to the Ways and Means Committee, and an identical bill sits in the House, from Rep. Mike Haffner, R-Pleasant Hill. A similar measure filed last year was voted out of committee but never made it to the Senate floor, records show.
[...]
This is ridiculous. This is Orban's Hungarian playbook: don't like what the country's most renowed university is doing, let's harass them until they leave!
Looks like Texas is about to ban abortions after 6 weeks (Texas currently bans abortions after 20 weeks). Georgia's recent voting restrictions caused a national outcry. And let's not forget about North Carolina's infamous "Bathroom Bill". And yet, these states are growing like crazy.
I think it's time we urbanists and STL apologists quit blaming everything on the Missouri legislature, and start looking at our own problems and try to figure out what we're doing wrong. Why do we have such a bad rep? Why are we always overlooked by growing businesses? Why doesn't anyone want to move here? Why is this region so stagnant, and how do we break the cycle of doing the same thing over and over, while expecting new outcomes?
I think it's time we urbanists and STL apologists quit blaming everything on the Missouri legislature, and start looking at our own problems and try to figure out what we're doing wrong. Why do we have such a bad rep? Why are we always overlooked by growing businesses? Why doesn't anyone want to move here? Why is this region so stagnant, and how do we break the cycle of doing the same thing over and over, while expecting new outcomes?
Does anyone here blame “everything” on the Missouri Legislature?
I certainly haven’t noticed that...even though they absolutely deserve some blame. I honestly think this is an overly simplistic observation that ignores significant differences between Missouri and these other states and why others may be more willing to over look the ridiculousness coming out of their state houses. All three of those states you mention have access to the coast, they have better weather, more tourism (significantly more) and in Texas’ case a multi-billion dollar energy industry that allows them to cut taxes to the bone in ways other states can’t.
Missouri can’t compete with that even if we had the most progressive legislature in the country. There’s no question STL has it’s own bullsh*t to figure out (kinda feel like that’s a regular topic of discussion here too) but let’s stop pretending we can ignore what’s going on in Jefferson City and expect things to get any better. Our biggest issue is arguably gun violence and just this week a Missouri legislator added an amendment to a bill to allow guns in churches...
They can’t even get Blair’s Law passed for f*cks sake.
I certainly haven’t noticed that...even though they absolutely deserve some blame. I honestly think this is an overly simplistic observation that ignores significant differences between Missouri and these other states and why others may be more willing to over look the ridiculousness coming out of their state houses. All three of those states you mention have access to the coast, they have better weather, more tourism (significantly more) and in Texas’ case a multi-billion dollar energy industry that allows them to cut taxes to the bone in ways other states can’t.
Missouri can’t compete with that even if we had the most progressive legislature in the country. There’s no question STL has it’s own bullsh*t to figure out (kinda feel like that’s a regular topic of discussion here too) but let’s stop pretending we can ignore what’s going on in Jefferson City and expect things to get any better. Our biggest issue is arguably gun violence and just this week a Missouri legislator added an amendment to a bill to allow guns in churches...
They can’t even get Blair’s Law passed for f*cks sake.
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^ do they have better weather? NC probably by a smidge. TX and GA i would imagine have fairer winters but harsher summers.
^ Yes. I would venture to say most people prefer the heat over the cold. The cold doesn’t bother me personally and I’m not interested in a Texas summer myself...but look how many people leave New York for Florida or the Midwest for Phoenix. And Phoenix is in the damn desert lol.
I know a bunch of people that have left STL for Vegas, Phoenix, Denver, Dallas, LA, and Florida and weather isn’t their only concern (by a long shot)...but it’s up there.
I know a bunch of people that have left STL for Vegas, Phoenix, Denver, Dallas, LA, and Florida and weather isn’t their only concern (by a long shot)...but it’s up there.
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^ sure, but Texas and Georgia both have terrible humidity and tons of insects in addition to the heat. really doubt that weather is a draw for either of them. not positive about Florida but i would guess it's more temperate. and lots of ocean. desert doesn't appeal to me either but it's got fewer insects (just giant scorpions instead) and the ol' "but it's a dry heat" so i guess that's the attraction.
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My guess in regards to TX, FL and TN is that they have no income tax and have the “it factor” while STL residents seem to relish in trashing our own city. And yes, they have better weather. People hate long, cold, dreary/depressing winters, but there’s more to it.
We need jobs, jobs, jobs. That will help solve a lot of other issues like economy, crime, tax base, growth and other issues. The way to grow is to bring people here for jobs, then win them over with our world-class amenities. If we have the crime-ridden hell-hole reputation, it’s hard to get people here and keep them.
We need jobs, jobs, jobs. That will help solve a lot of other issues like economy, crime, tax base, growth and other issues. The way to grow is to bring people here for jobs, then win them over with our world-class amenities. If we have the crime-ridden hell-hole reputation, it’s hard to get people here and keep them.
No doubt a fundamentally shift can be attributed with the development of AC in homes and businesses. For a different long term discussion will excessive heat and droughts in Southwest (especially for Phoenix) from climate change flip the equation making northern latitudes more appaling. But in the near term, I agree with DogtownBnR that income taxes matter when the people making decisions on moving business are for all intents purpose is the C-suite along with a boatload of incentives.
Lets face it, what TX and NC do is offer a lot of big incentives, hard cash and low taxes to get the jobs and the pursue a tax or fee structure to support their state more so through individuals, some regressive (sales tax) and some just smart (cig taxes). As example, NC gas and cigarette tax are double then MO. For TX and FL they have built up infrastructure by extensive toll road network. Another good example is that a lot of the major metro's in these states have expanded transit and rail systems in one form or another as well as support commuter and corridor rail in some fashion. Nor do these states, even if they decry Feds & Dems spending policy, go backwards when Federal Funds are available to be had such as medicaid expansion and or say transit grants.
So it falls on St. Louis region even more to pickup slack. How? a coordinated job force training program as posted on another thread is long overdue and gives companies an expanded workforce with people already living in the region they need. so jobs, jobs, jobs.. I think the city needs to spends it covid windfall into three buckets; public safety (expand mental health, preventative programs, and expediate court docites), state of good repair (pave streets and repair sidewalks, upgrade lighting) and a capital program (Grand & FPP at grade intersection and fleet replacement) with setaside funds to leverage other federal grants (Urban highway removal program or Greenway grants, etc.). Finally and most difficult is St. Louis County and City need to consolidate more programs and services. Not necessarily merge but time to admit that one Port Authority governing and investing in major transportation infrastructure is long overdue. Time for County to have a say and invest in Lambert including a plan to consolidate & modernize into one terminal (no need for two terminals with too many letters with Concourses A, B, C, D, E & II) & curbside (more onsite parking, consolidated rental car, on site hotel)
Lets face it, what TX and NC do is offer a lot of big incentives, hard cash and low taxes to get the jobs and the pursue a tax or fee structure to support their state more so through individuals, some regressive (sales tax) and some just smart (cig taxes). As example, NC gas and cigarette tax are double then MO. For TX and FL they have built up infrastructure by extensive toll road network. Another good example is that a lot of the major metro's in these states have expanded transit and rail systems in one form or another as well as support commuter and corridor rail in some fashion. Nor do these states, even if they decry Feds & Dems spending policy, go backwards when Federal Funds are available to be had such as medicaid expansion and or say transit grants.
So it falls on St. Louis region even more to pickup slack. How? a coordinated job force training program as posted on another thread is long overdue and gives companies an expanded workforce with people already living in the region they need. so jobs, jobs, jobs.. I think the city needs to spends it covid windfall into three buckets; public safety (expand mental health, preventative programs, and expediate court docites), state of good repair (pave streets and repair sidewalks, upgrade lighting) and a capital program (Grand & FPP at grade intersection and fleet replacement) with setaside funds to leverage other federal grants (Urban highway removal program or Greenway grants, etc.). Finally and most difficult is St. Louis County and City need to consolidate more programs and services. Not necessarily merge but time to admit that one Port Authority governing and investing in major transportation infrastructure is long overdue. Time for County to have a say and invest in Lambert including a plan to consolidate & modernize into one terminal (no need for two terminals with too many letters with Concourses A, B, C, D, E & II) & curbside (more onsite parking, consolidated rental car, on site hotel)
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Committing to luring corporations with tax incentives and training programs means putting our destiny in someone else's hands. We should be employing people in public services that improve the quality and stability of life for residents with or without jobs. We need to expand communally-owned food, housing and other services, not more flaky Fortune 500s.